Not Enough Outlets for EVs

OK, use that number then instead of 2000. Figure out the space it's going to take to hold them at each battery swap location. These aren't D cells, they are big and heavy.

Tell that to the EV proponents and most libs, they say it has to and will.

Versus how many cars fully recharged with gas in the same time? And to rapidly charge these batteries takes enormous power, far more power than any gas station service has. Tesla super charging is 100KW. With 8 cars or batteries charging at once, that's 800KW. Your battery swap facility, how much power is that going to need? It's going to take major upgrades to the grid and power sources to support that.

I would argue exactly the opposite is true. A gas station is simple and can be put almost anywhere, it's a self-contained issue. A battery swap facility or any charging facility that is either going to charge a lot of cars quickly or charge a much smaller number more slowly, is going to need huge power and we don't have the infrastructure to support it. If you're going to do this charging at night or when the sun isn't shining or the wind blowing, that infrastructure extends from the charge facility all the way to the new generation sources that we don't have and that govt and people won't allow to be built, eg nuclear or natural gas. Tesla super charging, just ten cars is a megawatt. The old nuclear plant that was closed here a few years back was 600MW. New ones that we aren't building, I think are more like 1GW, their entire output would support charging 10,000 cars. There are 275 mil cars in the US. And US nuclear capacity peaked a decade ago. Nothing like that with a gas station.

Reply to
trader_4
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Apparently that isn't a problem, Tesla has super chargers that give a 200 mile charge in just 15 minutes and are being deployed. As long as that works, it goes a long way to solving the long trip problem. It sounds like you could be near empty and get near fully charged in about 30 mins. Bu there is likely more to the story, eg that it's probably not linear and the next 100 or 200 mile charge takes much longer. Or it could be that 200 miles of charge is all that you can do at one time because of heat generation. But still, being able to get 200 miles in 15 minutes is a big step forward.

Reply to
trader_4

How does the town expect that to happen? I sure don't see it happening by existing market forces. Especially switching versus just being used for new installs. You're talking about just seven and a half years. I suspect Ann Arbor is run by moon beam libs.

And, of course, to electric vehicles.

It's just the usual generic stuff, nothing really big or concrete.

I suspect they are going to go much higher if they actually try to achieve their goal.

Reply to
trader_4

Location, location. Last week I was looking for a photo of an old gas house in Troy NY. There was a Zillow link on the page that I clicked out of curiosity. You'd have to see them in person but there were some pretty good looking houses in the $100,000 range. That money around here would get you a fixer-upper garage.

Reply to
rbowman

1) 2000 cars a day is hardly a "typical gas station". A costco with 20 pumps, perhaps. But not the corner mobil station with two pumps. And it is apples compared to oranges, as one can charge at home, but one cannot fillup their gas tank at home. 2) Battery swaps are unlikely in the near future for a number of reasons including the fact that they are built into the chassis on current EV vehicles. Chassis swaps (pick up the body and drop it on a new chassis) may be a more viable option in the future, but: 3) Then there is recharging while driving - such as the experimental roadway being built in Detroit right now that charges vehicles wirelessly while they are driving. Expand that to curbside parking spots, parking garage floors, etc. et alia. 4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical transportation.
Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Indeed. Right now the cheapest listing in Ann Arbor appears to be a

2-bed, 1 bath, 661-square-foot house on a crawl (highly undesirable here in Michigan) for $189,000.
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Oh, hey. There's a downtown condo for about $1.7 million. 3 bed, 3 bath, 2552 square feet.

Reply to
Cindy Hamilton

Of course it will. Just like we build refineries and gas stations to meet demand. It CAN be done. Actually, it must be done as oil becomes harder to find and more expensive. Todd has some oil working in his back yard but it won't be ready for another couple of million years.

So it looks like the world as we know it is maxed out. We can't build any more factories, we can't build any more Amazon warehouses, we can't even build new houses. The grid is maxed out and that's the end. Sarcasm added for MM

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Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

There are ideas being considered to have huge islands of solar panels and solar panels in space.

The sun radiates enough energy to earth in one hour to meet all of our energy needs for a year. We have to figure out how to harness it.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

It is going to take a wide range of technologies including generation and storage. Including nuclear.

Actually, it would be quite bad to "harness" all of it. Consider the TSI (Total Solar Insolation), which is approximately 1367 watts per square meter. Some significant fraction of that is reflected back into space (by clouds, for example). The balance between them keeps the planet habitable.

Were we to use all of it, the planet would get pretty warm, pretty quickly.

Note the role of CO2 with respect to TSI - some of that 1367 watts per square meter is absorbed by the earth and re-emitted as infrared radiation back into space. When an IR photon strikes a CO2 molecule it is reflected, some of it back to the earth. Doubling the fraction of CO2 in the atmosphere doubles the amount of IR that gets reflected back to the planet, which leads to global warming.

Taking it to absurdity:

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Reply to
Scott Lurndal

That's just a fluff piece, but even it says:

"Pacific Northwest National Laboratory found that the national, western grid, and Washington state regions can handle ?electric vehicle fleet sizes of up to 24 million, 9 million, and 1 million, respectively, without requiring any additional power plants. "

If that's true, it's still only 9% of the cars in the USA. That we have excess capacity in that range isn't surprising or reassuring.

Reply to
trader_4

Good luck with that, given the cost/benefit ratio.

You left out the other part of that, which is that it takes the entire surface of the earth to collect the above energy.

Reply to
trader_4

Hook, line and sinker...

Reply to
Marilyn Manson

Huh???? You don't need it all. You need 1/8750 of it One hour of sun = 1 year of energy use.

Of course with nukes and wind you don't need all of that either.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:42:15 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed dribbled all over himself when he posted a few meaningless words that were automatically flushed.

Reply to
Derby Dad

Sure I would. I just took pictures of a dead whale a few weeks ago in CA.

What was coming out of its mid-section reminds me of what comes out of your mouth. A bunch of sloppy goo, making a mess wherever it flows. I have to say, it smelled much better than you do.

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Reply to
Marilyn Manson

Sure I did. Prove me wrong.

Reply to
Marilyn Manson

Yes.

Unlikely given the need for Lithium for them.

Might be viable with nuke power generation and a massive grid upgrade but unlikely for the longer distance trips.

Hardly anyone ever changes their mind after a usenet discussion.

Can't see it myself. Yes, and EV can be viable when charged overnight at home but you don't get enough miles added to the range with the usual shopping or restaurant stop.

Yeah, f*ck that. Home charging would be viable but even if all condos had that at all parking spots that would need a massive upgrade to the grid connection at the condo.

Reply to
Jock

New batteries will not have lithium. There are other technologies in the works.

You must eat fast. Level 3 chargers will fill most in 30 minutes. Dinner is usually about an hour.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Not with Jimmy John's Freaky Fast service...

Reply to
rbowman

I didn't say or imply that you need all of the energy you cited. I just pointed out that the impressive amount of sun energy you cited would require the entire surface of the earth to collect. The surface of the earth is 200 mil square miles and most of that is water.

Reply to
trader_4

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