Not sure how you substitute electricity for water - assume he means heating
water with propane or gas.
That said, unless you are generating your own electricity with turbines or
photovoltaic arrays (which have substantial capital costs), electrcity is almost
always more expensive than natural gas, heating oil or bottled gas (propane),
even taking efficiency into account.
There are a number of calculators on the web. Here's just one:
That part is easy.
If you have a well you do not pay for water. In the city water and
sewage can run up to be a big bill. Then in the winter in many parts of
the country you have to heat the house with something.
About 15 years ago I moved to a larger house that was better built. The
old house had gas heat but not too much insulation as it was built about
1965. In the winter months, I was paying more for just the gas heat for
the house and hot water than I now pay for electricity with a heat pump
and electric water heater.
I am paying around 10 to 12 cents per KWH if I devided the bill
correctly a few months back.
Did not know that was going on in parts of the country.
Seems there is going to be a way to tax everything. I have heard that
the states want to put a road tax on the electric cars where you paid a
tax for the number of miles driven. That is to make up for the tax lost
on gas for roads.
I have not checked on it, but have heard there is a rain tax. That is
if you have say a parking lot where the rain can not go into the gound
but out to the storm drains you get taxed for that.
On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 12:01:47 -0500, Arthur Conan Doyle
With a well?
I agree natural gas piped in is usually cheaper than electricity but
that is certainly not true of propane here. Propane is expensive
($2.50 to over $4 a gallon and fairly volatile pricing). Electric has
been pretty steady at ~11 cents a KWH bottom line.
Electricity is also virtually 100% efficient instead of sending a lot
of heat up the flue.
For air based heat pumps, true. Those tend to be found in areas where winters
aren't particularly cold. Unfortunately, when temps drop below freezing, they
revert to resistence heating.
I have relatives with a geothermal system. Definitely works year round, but much
more expensive to install. It also had to be replaced after 10 years, which
But the incremental cost on the line is minimal. Just because of the
economy of scale most small HVAC systems might be heat pump by default
and it is the special order to delete it. It is getting that way with
mini splits here now.
On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 2:30:04 AM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
You're correct, of course. Just to verify it, I just looked at the cost
of the eqpt for 3 ton Goodman AC 14 Seer and 3 ton Goodman Heatpump.
Both about $2300 within a hundred bucks of each other, which is nothing
since with installation around here you'd be looking at about 3.5X
that total from the contractor for replacement, a lot more for the
whole thing, ie ducts, for a new home. Heat pumps have gotten more
efficient in recent years too. The problem is the capacity. 3 tons
is 36K BTU, which is what a tiny gas furnace would be, if they even
make them that small. Even a 5 ton system is just 60K, my gas
furnace is twice that. So, the problem becomes sizing them for
colder climates. I guess it takes geothermal to get enough output,
not sure how much even those have. I know is you don't see
heatpump systems of any kind being installed here in the NYC area,
where it's not especially cold, unless it's some
tree hugger doing it outside the norm, cost be damned.
Heat pumps that work out in the air are very good in the areas where I
live. It seldom gets or stays very cold, say below 10 deg F. The heat
pumps work very well to about 25 or 30 deg F outside air temp. In a way
they are over 100% efficient as they put out more heat by transferring
it than just electricity would provide in say baseboard heat.
Around 20 deg F or lower the efficiency drops off and the electric heat
coils or 'emergency' heat comes on. One other thing is that if you
constantly turn the heat up and down, more than about 2 or 3 degreese
the heating coils come on and waste the money.
In areas where it gets below say 20 deg F and stays that way for long
periods of time , the air type heat pumps do not work very well if at
A 2 1/2 or 3 ton heat pump will keep a 2000 sqft house warm with no
problem if it is insulated well in the area where I live.
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