Ice maker supply issues

[Peabody]

I've bought a condo, and when the sellers disconnected their refrigerator ice maker, they didn't notice immediately that the shutoff valve on the supply line wouldn't turn off completely. Well eventually they found the problem, and the fix was to replace the valve with one that works. But instead of installing a 1/4 inch angle valve like the one taken out, the plumber installed a 3/8 inch straight valve. He also took out part of the wall behind the fridge and connected a pex line to something back there. I believe the pex line is 1/2 inch.

I have found a 3/8 to 1/4 adaptor, but with the straight valve, it looks like the refrigerator will have to stand at least 6 inches away from the wall. Here are pictures of what I have:

It appears the pex has a metal band around it. So I wonder if it would be possible to cut that band, remove the valve, and install the right one. Here are the valves I've found that look like they would work with pex:

The second one is a Sharkbyte valve that in theory you just stick the pex into. This cannot possibly work.

The outlet of the valve needs to be parallel with the wall, not sticking out from the wall. That way the fridge can fit close to the wall.

So what I've just described is the way I see things. But basically I just told you everything I know about plumbing. So I'm wondering if I'm completely wrong about all this, and am missing something that would let me use the existing valve as is. Or do I just need to get this fixed?

[Retirednoguilt]

Before you proceed with any plumbing work to enable the back of the fridg to be closer to the wall, suggest you check the fridg's owner's/user's manual to see what the recommended clearance should be. Some newer models rely on air exchange on the front and/or sides only and allow for close spacing to the back wall. Most older models rely on airflow from behind and require a larger spacing from the back wall for proper operation or at least maximal efficiency.

[Marilyn Manson]

It's SharkBite.

Why do say that? I think that you should look into how SharkBite fittings work. They are expensive, but they are perfect for DIY (and professional) situations where sweating can be difficult, PEX is used, you need a real quick fix, you hate compression fittings (like me), etc.

Here you go...I just installed a new WH. All PEX and SharkBite push-to-fit fittings. Yes, I could have sweated this all in, but I was in a hurry and decided to spend the money on SharkBites. I already had the PEX, cutters, some fittings, etc.

Even the supply lines, with the integral shut-off, have SharkBite connectors on the input end. They sell them that way. The blue PEX in the upper right has a SharkBite connector to transition from PEX to 1/2" copper. Another advantage of SharkBite connectors: one fitting, multiple types of pipe.

Many of the shut-offs in my house are SharkBites. I even have a few SharkBite connectors on the PEX that runs from the air compressor in my garage over to the workshop.

Read up on them and then decide if they are for you.

Or the shutoff can be in the basement or someplace else where it is not an obstruction. That's where my fridge shutoff is.

[invalid unparseable]

Perhaps consider installing one of these :

[Marilyn Manson]

A P.S. on my other post about SharkBite connectors:

After installation, they can be rotated on the pipe. No need to worry about alignment like you do with compression fittings or PEX crimp connectors.

They are also removable and reusable.

BTW...to use the first shut-off that you linked to, you would need a PEX crimping tool and crimp connectors.

Just an example, not a recommendation:

If this will be your only foray into PEX plumbing, a single SharkBite shutoff would probably be cheaper and easier - assuming that you have room to get the fitting on the short piece of PEX that is sticking out of the wall. The paint will need to be removed - carefully so that you don't damage the surface of the PEX. The SharkBite fittings like a smooth surface to seal to.

[trader_4]

I would remove the valve and get a 90 PEX elbow and install it, then a valve. I think HD rents out PEX tools, not sure if you can get away with using a similar kind of crimping tool if you happen to have one. Also Harbor Freight might have a cheap crimper. That was a really dumb plumber.

[Marilyn Manson]

Or a plumber that listened to the former owner when they said "Just fix it quick and cheap. We're moving."

Or we don't know who the "plumber" was, if it was even a "plumber". Maybe the OP is just assuming it was a plumber. Could have been the former owner, a friend, etc. "Just fix it quick and cheap. We're moving."

[Peabody]

Thanks very much for the replies.

I gather from the comments that I was right that the valve should be 1/4, and should not be sticking straight out. Since posting, I've consulted with the manager of the HOA for the condo complex, and he reminded me that I had already agreed - somewhere - to follow the rules and regulations. And those include - no amateur plumbing. With adjoining units, the potential for disaster is just too great. So I have to have everything done by a licensed plumber. And on that basis, I have a growing list that's going to cost me a small fortune, based on the inspector and my own preferences:

- Remove and reseat (new wax ring) toilet that is not secured to floor. - Replace the tub spout (badly leaking diverter). - Remove the shower arm that comes out at my nose, replace with "S" arm. - This issue with the ice maker valve.

I would not have attempted the toilet reseating, but would have done the other three (if Sharkbite would work). Ok, I probably wouldn't have attempted the Sharkbite thing unless I could find another shutoff back down the line. I don't want to get into a situation where I have zero experience and be unable to turn the water back on at the meter.

Anyway, I assume the plumber I hire will have the needed gear, but possibly not the needed valve. Home Depot didn't have one. So maybe I should just order both valves from Amazon before the plumber arrives, in case they are needed.

Sorry about my comment that Sharkbite couldn't possibly work. It's just hard to see how its lifespan could be very long. But apparently I'm wrong about that.

Installing an ice maker box is not something I had considered. I would have to ask the plumber if that's practical here, and what it would cost.

And yes, I DO know the name of the plumber who installed this valve. It was a home warranty job for the sellers. I may want to speak with him, although he has no obligation to me at all even if he admits screwing up.

Here's what he put on the invoice:

[Marilyn Manson]

re: "should be 1/4"

Should be 1/4 what? 1/4 turn or 1/4". It appears from the text below that a "1/4 TURN STRAIGHT STOP 3/8" was used, meaning that:

1 - The previous fridge had a 3/8" water line, or 2 - The plumber used whatever he had, knowing that the fridge was gone.

"In case" is OK for now, although he may say "I don't install customer supplied parts" or "If I install a customer supplied part, I don't warranty my work. Too high a chance of finger-pointing when things go wrong."

Who knows, he may simply do it. Seems like you could ask beforehand.

re: PRO PRESS TO REX ADAPTER

I assume that means PRO PRESS TO PEX ADAPTER, like one of these:

From there he used a PEX compatible shutoff, using a crimp ring connector.

After that, someone did a terrible job of closing up the hole that was required to get the ProPress tool inside the wall. That would require a pretty decent sized "small section" to be cut out.

How big is that top quality mud job area?

[Dean Hoffman]

Peabody should stay out of the way when the plumber shows up. I used to repair farm equipment. Farmers would come out to "help". They usually just got in the way. Who gets the blame if the repair fails?

[Marilyn Manson]

Define "stay out of the way".

If I had criteria such as the Peabody that needed to be met in order for my fridge to fit where I wanted it, I'd want to be damn sure there was no misunderstanding as to my requirements.

In many cases, especially with contractors, what they hear (or don't hear) doesn't always match with what you said (or tried to say.)

Me, I'm checking in during the job to make sure we're all on the same page.

Unless you let them actually *touch* stuff how would a fail be the fault of anyone but the repair person?

If you let them touch stuff or begin to direct your work in a direction that you don't think it should go, then all work should stop until it's clear - maybe even in writing - that you are not to blame for any failures.

[Peabody]

I meant 1/4" compression, which as far as I can tell is what every refrigerator ice maker line in the world uses. The seller's refrigerator was gone. Disconnecting it is what led to the problem. So there was no one there to ask or complain about the 3/8" outlet.

I will do that.

I don't understand. What did he connect to the copper?

Elsewhere on the invoice he says he cut a 10x12 opening. I'm thinking more about putting in a box.

[Marilyn Manson]

I'm not able to see what was there before the new shut-off was installed, but based on the rest of the job description, here's what I think was done.

The existing shut-off was very close to the wall, so he had to figure out a way to remove it and install a new one.

CUT SMALL SECTION INTO WALL

Down below you say the invoice says he cut a 10 x 12 opening. Units of measure matter, so I'll assume 10" x 12". He cut a 10" x 12" hole in the wall to give himself room to work.

USED CUPPER CUTTERS CUT OUT OLD STOP (CUPPER is a misspelling of COPPER)

He cut the existing copper pipe, inside the wall, to remove the old stop.

ATTACHMENT PRO PRESS TO REX ADAPTER (REX is a misspelling of PEX)

He attached a short length of PEX to the existing copper pipe using a ProPress connector like I linked to earlier. ProPress connectors are crimp-on connectors that eliminate the need to sweat copper. There are "transition" adaptors to change from copper to PEX. They require a big crimping tool, another reason for the 10" x 12" hole. He could have used a SharkBite, but ProPress fittings are probably cheaper, as long as you have the crimping tool.

See the top picture here. This is what I believe is now inside the wall:

NEW PEX LINE OUT THE WALL

He extended the PEX out of the wall, to which he then connected a shut-off that fits inside the PEX and is secured with a crimp ring made for PEX.

A box would help if you want to recess the shut-off into the wall.

[trader_4]

I've seen shop labor rate signs that say:

$100 an hour $150 if you watch $200 if you help.

[Peabody]

Ok, so suppose I want to just change the straight valve to an angle valve so the connecting ice maker line will lie parallel to the wall. Can the plumber remove the existing pex crimp ring, pull the straight valve out, insert the angle valve, and install a new crimp where the old one was. Or is it necessary to cut off the pex behind the existing crimp ring to get "new" pex? I assume if the angle valve is sharkbite, he would definitely have to cut the pex behind the crimp ring. And then theres the problem of the paint. But I don't know if there's enough pex left. How much has to be inserted into the sharkbite.

I guess what I asking is whether he will need to open up the wall to change out the valve.

[Dean Hoffman]

This looks like one of those try it to see things. It might help to use a hair dryer to heat the pex to make it a little more flexible.

[trader_4]

Can you pull some more PEX out of the wall? There may be some slack. I would think it would be most desirable to cut off the end of what's there, looks like there could be enough. But if not, then I would think the plumber would just re-use it, not open the wall. What I would do is use a PEX elbow with a threaded valve, so that in the future a bad valve could be replaced without doing the PEX again.

And if you have to open the wall, it's not really a big deal or bad. They have boxes that go in the wall for that, with valve. So you cut a square hole, probably have to do a PEX coupling to extend the pipe, connect it to the new box with valve and put the box in the opening. As someone else said, that would give you more clearance in the back too, if needed. If you're considering doing that, I'd probably buy the box and have it. I'd expect a plumber to have typical PEX stuff, but probably not a box, unless he knew he needed it.

[Peabody]

The plumber came yesterday, and switched the valve out. He pulled the whole thing out a bit more, then used a cutting tool to cut the rear crimp off, removed the pex and valve assembly, then installed new pex and the new valve. He didn't need to do anything to the wall. So now I have 1.4 inch compression, as God intended for ice makers, and it's an angle valve, so the line is parallel to the wall. So it all turned out well, except of course the expense of having to do it over.

Thanks very much for everyone's comments and suggestions.

He used a 5 foot braided line, and put two loops in it. He said that would keep it from kinking as the fridge is pushed back. I've found no confirmation of that practice.

[Clare Snyder]

Best practice - loops don't kink and braided line is flexible and kink resistant. You DO NOT want a line to kink OR crack!!