Home ac having problems - freon doesn't seem to be circulating

[The Daring Dufas]

Why tell me? The folks I do work for don't have the money to replace a system. BeeHO hasn't stimulated theirs or my bank account so folks call on me to repair what they have. It's called survival and making do with what you got. I had an old fellow call me one day to look at a Carrier he had bought back in the early 70's. It was the best and most expensive unit Carrier made for homes at that time. It has stainless steel hardware, factory sight glass, high and low pressure controls, anti short cycle timer and a temperature controlled two speed condenser fan. The condenser fan motor burned out and an HVAC company told him he needed a new system. I took a look at his old Rolls Royce of an AC and told him "Don't you dare get rid of this system!". I replaced the two speed condenser fan motor and the system goes into low speed mode at night and thanks to an insulating blanket over the compressor, it barely makes a sound in quiet mode. His neighbors all around him have newer AC units that sound like airplanes taking off. The repair bill was quite a bit less than the $8,000 the other guys wanted.

TDD

[Stormin Mormon]

And, that's the state of the economy. We're headed into a depression to make 1929 look like party week at the frat house. I get plenty of chances to rescue older equipment. I regularly work on R-12 equipment that dates back to before the freon boondoggle.

[Steve]

Again, specific situation that may or may not apply to the op. Maybe he's in the upper pennisula, it just needs a little freon, and the guy has been laid off for 6 months now. You can list cases supporting replace and I can list cases for repair. My point was if you don't have all the facts you can't just make a blanket recommendation.

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In case you missed it, R22 refrigerant that is in the old systems if being phased out, and is rapidly going away. I give it 6-8 months before the

*WHOLESALE* cost of R22 is going to jump to $500 for a 30lb jug..... before any mark-up, or the techs time to put it in. Add to that that the manufactures no longer make anything that takes the old refrigerant. You can pay me now, or you can pay me now, *and* pay me later. FWIW, in 2004 when production and importing of R22 was cut back 35%, the wholesale price jumped from $1,600 for a pallet, to $6,800 for a pallet. January 1st of this year, it was cut back an additional 75%, and in January of 2015(5 years from now) there will be an additional 90% cutback. The new systems with the "new" refrigerant (R-410a), use half the amount of refrigerant for the same capacity as the old ones, use a whole lot less energy to run them, and are extremely quiet. Where is there a down side to increasing comfort, and lowering utility bills, as well as getting tax credits, and manufacturer as well as utility company incentives??

BTW... according to Appliance Magazine, the average lifespan of heating and cooling systems is 13 - 17 years.

[brassplyer]

Well, I tend to do it myself within the bounds of common sense. Almost never pay an auto mechanic, have replaced engines, trannies, etc. myself. Installed my own water heater, repaired an entire section of carpenter ant damaged wall, etc.

However, I'm also conscious of possible hazards of fumbling around something I'm not familiar with or accidentally trashing a unit that

*could* have been salvaged by a reputable pro had they been given the chance to work on it before I wreaked havoc on it.

If I can find something obvious that I can remedy it myself, I'm more than happy to tackle it. But at this point I'm trying to become educated as much as anything.

[brassplyer]

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside breaker and main breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull plant crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils to remove other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a few months ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance was obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

[Tony Hwang]

Hmm, You know how to revive dead person? Your a/c system is dead or dying due to old age. Time for new one. Economy needs you spend money. That Freon filled old machine is power sucking low efficiency monster. Upgrade. Even if you fix it, it won't last long. Be wise and do a right thing. Not all HVAC techs are crooks. There are more honest good ones than bad ones. Ask around, you'll find good honest dependable one near you. Treat him/her well, He/She will treat you well. You brass player? Me too low brass all my life.

[Steve]

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside breaker and main breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull plant crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils to remove other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a few months ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance was obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

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Naw..... just run it till it quits, then get ready to shell out the big buck$$$$

[Evan]

Why ??

Because a refrigerator only keeps a small very well insulated space cold... Your home AC unit (which is only about 3x the size if you look at the internal components compared to a refrigerator) is working MUCH harder to cool off an exponentially larger volume of space in comparison to the interior volume of your refrigerator...

As to your other ponderings about why his AC unit lasted so long without requiring repair, who knows, could be he hardly ever uses it like the OP claimed in previous posts, could have been luck... A car could conceivably go 22 years without an oil change if you drove it less than 4,000 total miles during that time... I don't know of anyone who owns a car that they "hardly ever drive" over more than 20 years of owning it, do you ???

And no, you don't know enough about AC units if all you think you need to do is change the filter in the duct work and clear out the leaves from the outside heat pump... You really should be inspecting the coils inside your duct work and CLEANING those of dust and debris annually so that the air passing through the coil in the duct can be more efficiently cooled... You should also clean the coils inside the heat pump annually as well as dirt, bugs and any number of things can get inside the fins and restrict airflow... When you shut off your AC system each year you should be covering the heat pump unit outside to PREVENT debris like leaves from entering it and to protect it from ice getting inside the unit during the winter...

~ Evan

[Evan]

Yup... BEFORE you start it up for the new season you should do maintenance on the entire system...

Just because something was "working like a champ" the previous time you operated it has no bearing on any number of things that have happened to it since your "well it worked the last time I used it" situation...

Has it rained since the last time you used your AC unit ??? Could have had a lightning strike nearby that fried an electrical component inside the heat pump...

If your idea of "maintenance" is just cleaning it out periodically then you have no clue... Preventive maintenance is the cumulative effect of doing small things much more often to allow the equipment function normally without having to struggle to keep up with demand because of dirty and clogged coils... It also requires more care than turning off a switch in the fall and a few minutes under your wet/dry vac in the spring...

Count yourself as lucky that it lasted 22 years...

~~ Evan

[brassplyer]

It gets used periodically, albeit sparsely in the winter as well. There is no "season". In fact in Florida, you might use the heat one week, the A/C the next.

But okay.

It frequently rains *while* using the A/C. I'm in the habit of shutting it off during lightning storms. I don't run it at all when I'm at work unless I forget to turn it off.

Okay, what "maintenance" will prevent this?

If I'm doing what I've outlined, I deserve some clue credit, since the alternative is to not do them.

Okay, such as..? You haven't really given any specifics. Coils inside and outside cleaned. Filter changed periodically. What else?

It didn't appear to be struggling at all.

[brassplyer]

Yeah, that's a factor I've been hearing, the efficiency is supposed to be a lot better on newer units.Of course, due to minimal usage, I've never had a power bill over about $130. That's in the dead of summer. Never running it, the bill's around $70. So at most it's costing me around $2/day to run.

The other consideration is this tax break that's currently available, and a modest credit from the power company.

[Stormin Mormon]

As old as your system is, it very likely needs professional cleaning. I'm sure a few on alternating havoc are tired of hearing me say "have your condensing unit professionally cleaned". I've found over the years that even condensors that look clean are often dirty. Which interferes with cooling, and drives the electric bill up. One Trane I cleaned, the amp draw dropped about amp after cleaning. Which is equivilant to turning off two 100 watt light bulbs.

[Stormin Mormon]

Not wrong, just incomplete. The professional coil cleaning chemicals do wonders.

[Stormin Mormon]

I played trumpet when I was in about 4th grade. Years later, I got a chance to try a bugle. I'd lost all the skill I had.

I couldn't even brass my way through. I tried, but I didn't have the pucker any more. I shoulda kept on with the lessons. I'd like to play, these days. Taken some piano lessons, but carrying a piano in a marching band is a pain in the brass.

[Evan]

How do you know this ??

You sit outside next to it as it runs -- no -- maybe you leave your windows open so you can hear it running from inside the house -- no...

You don't know how it was working when it was running last, all you do know is it made the air cold at that time...

~~ Evan

[cshenk]

"Stormin Mormon" wrote

While I am willing to know when I need a pro.

I doubt I will see a problem. I don't know what to look for.

I have a company coming out tomorrow to check mine. I probably do not need a full HVAC reoplacement (combined heat and AC and heat worked while AC is under cooling). All I know we skipped HVAC maintenance while paying off

25,000$ in rental damage and some 5,000$ in materials to 'DIY' repairs.

I am pretty sure we just need added coolant. We have not done that in 3 years since return as as far as we lnow, it was last done in 1998. The renters were not bashful at all at getting contractors in the reducing their rent by the cost and filing after the fact but there is no referent to Freon added. Heck I was in Japan. I can just reasonably guess last fill was 1998.

In my case, still have AC but it is not as cool as it should be. Last year it was 'ok' but I recall it being better.

Professionals due in tomorrow to service the unit and do what is needed.

[brassplyer]

Having been in houses where the A/C was clearly struggling to do a minimal job of cooling the house - and being familiar with the performance of this A/C system since it was brand new.

[cshenk]

"Stormin Mormon" wrote

Grin, I'm hopeful that is all I need! In fact, it's a possible. I asked for servicing too.

Groan, when we got back they hadn't changedd the filters since we left in

2001. We even left then with with 6 of them (anticipating 3 years away).

[Stormin Mormon]

There are some people who don't maintain anything till it breaks. Sounds like you had those type of people.

[jamesgangnc]

Go ahead, tell us the specific items you do for pm on a split system ac?