I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.
Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust. Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it causes water damage.
I have the same doubts as you do, but as an electrician that does tons of work with plumbers, I can tell you that they all love the stuff, they swear by it, and assure me that it won't fall apart ten years from now. I'm still a skeptic, but for whatever reason, the stuff has made believers out of plumbers.
Like you and RBM, I have my doubts too. I'd use one if it made a job a lot easier, but it wouldn't be my first choice. AFAIK, they are relatively new and I haven't seen anything showing a history of decades of reliability.
A little story here to amuse too. There's a local ACE hardware store that's a real pain in the ass. Everytime you walk in, one of the village idiot store employees walks up and asks if they can help you. That's fine, to a point. But they can't just point you to the isle and get lost. Instead, they like to start asking all kinds of questions, try to re-engineer what you're doing, when they are totally clueless. As an example, I went in and was looking for screws. The guy comes over and asks if I need help. I tell him I'm looking for round headed wood screws. He shows me flat headed ones, which I already saw. Then, he looks at me like he never heard of or saw a round headed one. Next, he's asking what it is I'm doing and starts recommending sheet metal screws.
On another trip, this same idiot was recommending those Shark Bite fittings, telling me how wonderful they are, how he uses them at the local school. On that trip I was looking for a pressure gauge for a residential water system and he had told me a couple minutes before that city water pressure is about 2 PSI......
Like you and RBM, I have my doubts too. I'd use one if it made a job a lot easier, but it wouldn't be my first choice. AFAIK, they are relatively new and I haven't seen anything showing a history of decades of reliability.
A little story here to amuse too. There's a local ACE hardware store that's a real pain in the ass. Everytime you walk in, one of the village idiot store employees walks up and asks if they can help you. That's fine, to a point. But they can't just point you to the isle and get lost. Instead, they like to start asking all kinds of questions, try to re-engineer what you're doing, when they are totally clueless. As an example, I went in and was looking for screws. The guy comes over and asks if I need help. I tell him I'm looking for round headed wood screws. He shows me flat headed ones, which I already saw. Then, he looks at me like he never heard of or saw a round headed one. Next, he's asking what it is I'm doing and starts recommending sheet metal screws.
On another trip, this same idiot was recommending those Shark Bite fittings, telling me how wonderful they are, how he uses them at the local school. On that trip I was looking for a pressure gauge for a residential water system and he had told me a couple minutes before that city water pressure is about 2 PSI......
Bottom line, there is no history. I'm sure back in time someone, somewhere said: It's galvanized, can't rust, it'll last forever
brassplyer wrote in news:cde6b25b-0278-468d-bdac- snipped-for-privacy@t35g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
I wouldn't want one in my wall, difficult to access location, location where failure could cause a lot of damage, etc.
Plumbers love the stuff and they swear by it? Like they did with polybutylene pipes and fittings?
Sweating works. Proven for decades. Assume what you have now is Cu.
Sweat coupling/elbow .50-1.00 Sharkbite fittings
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Guess I'm just old and inflexible. I remember my grandfather telling us if you put that water paint (latex) on something outside it will wash off when it rains.
I had to crawl under my cabin to repair a water line that froze and burst. I went to buy the parts, compression fittings, and when I saw the sharkbites, was a little skeptical, but got them anyway. Talk about sweet. Not sure about longevity, but after three years, mine's still holding. It saved a ton of work from not having to pull a lot of line to get it to where I could sweat it safely.
Steve
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Learn how to care for a friend.
I love the things for some applications. If you're doing a largish job the fitting cost will add up very quickly, but for smaller jobs, particularly repairs, they're a godsend. Snip, snip, click, done.
As far as the longevity, Cash Acme has been around for a hundred years and the fittings come with a 25 year warranty. I know warranties always exclude anything but product replacement, but if the product is defective a class action suit will bring almost any company to its knees, so I doubt Cash Acme took the long warranty lightly.
There's not a lot that can go wrong with the fittings. As long as care is taken to make clean cuts and debur the pipe inside and out, then it's all up to the EPDM O-ring - and there's a long positive history on those under a lot tougher conditions than residential water temps and pressures.
As far as guarantees, there are none. Not too long ago I had to open up a ceiling, then a tiled tub apron, to get to a sweated copper fitting that the plumber had gotten _almost_ 100% good. It lasted for more than three years before the leak showed up. He was a good plumber, had used him on projects for 20 years and he wasn't rushing. Stuff happens.
I've used them for one project and as far as ease of installation, I can't say enough good things about them.
I've used compressions fittings and sweated lots of connections, so I have experience with all three technologies.
Project: Front hose spigot was at street pressure, plumbed before PRV. Backyard spigot was after PRV, therefore had much less pressure. The project was to tap into the street pressure pipe at the front of the house, run a pipe across the basement ceiling - up in the joist bay, over some duct work, over the I-Beam, over some more duct work, etc. to the back of the house. I had avoided it for years because it was going to be a real pain in the arse.
Then I heard about Shark Bites and decided to give them a try.
The first task was to remove the existing pipe and shut-off for the backyard spigot from the house system. I was watching a football game when I decided to get started. When a commercial came on, I turned off the main water valve, cut the pipe to the hose spigot, popped on a Shark Bite cap and turned the water back on - all before the commercial was over.
I then sweated a bunch of short pieces of copper together on my workbench to create a zig-zaggy run to get me from the joist bay down to where the spigot came out of the wall.
Last Part: I cut the street pressure pipe (up in the cramped junction of the rim joist and sub-floor) and slipped in a Shark Bite tee. There's no need to "aim" to tee in the direction you need to go since the Shark Bite fittings swivel after they are installed. I then ran a single length of PEX across the basement, used one more Shark Bite fitting to connect it to the copper set-up I had made earlier and I was done.
Since both Shark Bite connections were made in very tight quarters but no sweating or tools were required in those spaces, the job couldn't have been easier. The single run of PEX, instead of multiple lengths of copper over the duct work, etc. was a breeze.
As far as longevity, I can only trust that they will last as long as everyone says they will. As far as installation, as I said, I think they are perfect for quick jobs and tight spaces.
Yes, they are much more expensive than sweat fittings, but since time is money in many cases, the time saved with Shark Bites could offset the cost even on big jobs. I'll leave to some one else to run those numbers.
I've used a few in places where soldering or compression fittings would have been extremely difficult if not impossible. So far no problems, but tney are not 20 years old yet, either. Personally I don't like compression fittings. My experience is they "always" leak. Very, very little, but enough that after a few years there is green-white corrosion / mineral deposit all around them.
Whenever possible, on copper plumbing, I solder. As for springing a leak inside a wall, copper pipe has been known to do that too. So has galvanized iron pipe.
I could have sworn that I read or saw a documentary showing that there is an original Roman fountain that is still flowing without interruption in the same location it was built centuries ago but I couldn't find a reference with a quick search. I did find that some have been moved and or restored. I do think that their high tech lead pipes, dinnerware and lead containing food and drink may have caused their slow decline.
I have to wonder what the world would be like if The Roman Empire had endured? I suppose we would be speaking Latin? Remember the Star Trek episode "Bread and Circuses" from the original series showing Romans with machine guns and televised gladiatorial fights? 8-)
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in news:hjgte69dpuod818gt2li4c4o45vrss1394@
4ax.com:
Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a real man with a torch and melting metel :-)
We have an Invacare whirlpool tub at work that had Sharkbite fittings on the sanitizer system and had one leak after a year and a different one fail at about 2+ years. I wasn't impressed with them being used on a commercial unit.
A couple questions. Were these *real* sharkbites, or 'sharkbite type'? Installed at the factory, or during the site install? Were they in a spot that might be getting some vibration from the whirlpool?
I've got just one in my house- in a spot I dread having to solder- though I will if I ever get a drip, but it has been a few years now. Maybe by then they'll have waterproof duct tape.
Because I think it is their strongest point, not that they are limited to just that. They're too expensive to plumb an entire house or addition - doesn't make sense financially - and their ability to marry PVC, PEX, and copper makes them ideal for plumbing repair work and transitions from old to new.
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