PING marson: ball shut-off valve

[bent]

if I know what PING means. A while back you said you had the same problem. I want to follow your solution. Do you have any info that can help.

Here's the short version:

I turn off the water as much as possible at the original leaky (gate?) valve, disconnect the fitted pipe at the OUT of the water meter with the hex nut. I screw on the galvanized cap (not a nut, a rounded end). I cut out a section of 3/4" pipe, and install a shark bite valve. Re-attach the lower section of tube/pipe at the OUT of the water meter and turn on the water. Actually if I can put a cap on the meter I could put in a soldered ball valve.

Here's the long version:

My original main water shut-off valve is leaking about 12oz./minute. I purchased a B&K 3/4" Ball Valve with compression fittings which I want to install in a vertical stretch of 3/4" copper tubing JUST AFTER the horizontally mounted Trident Canada/Neptune water meter.

In order to fit the new valve into the ¾" vertical tube run I have bought a wheel-type mini tube cutter. The installed valve will be about 3-7/8" from end to end. I have measured both sides for the distances from the outer edge to the bottoming point (1.404" & 1.272"), and subtracting from the 3-7/8", the valve will displace approximately 1.282" of 3/4" vertical copper tubing, which I have to cut out, after I wash but not sand the outside. This method requires me to disconnect the pipe/tube with elbow at the water meter thread boss "out"-end connection with the nut in order to get a fully bottomed seat on both ends of the tube in the valve.

The other method of installing the valve is not to disconnect the pipe/tube at the water meter "out"-end and to cut the gap larger than the calculated

1.282", so I can slip the nuts then sleeves on both end pieces of cut Vert. tubing, and slide on one end of the valve up to the bottoming point, then align and slip on the other end of the valve, and center it all for equal but not bottoming connection on each side. I am not sure how much to cut out in this case w/r/t engagement lengths.

Are the sleeves tight, should I pre-heat them in boiling water to expand them, and make a wooden sliding tool.

To take the pressure off me, I may be able to stop the flow instead of using just buckets/trays rags while Liters flow. I bought a 3/4" galvanized cap in the plumbing dept of HD which seems to have the same thread as the thread on the "out"-end connection of the water meter. I am out of my depth w/r/t the thread types, like NPT vs. NC, but on the meter I viewed 4 threads (5 crests) in 4-1/2 or 4-2/3 sixteenths on a steel rule and a major diameter of

1.044" using a dial caliper, which is an estimated 1"-14, regardless of thread type. The cap I got has a similar visual distance between 5 crests (4-1/2+), and a minor diameter of .934". That's a .110" (1.76/16ths) diff b/t meter's max thread and nut's min thread diameters, and a visual equality of tpi,+/- 0.1/16". Still I am in no way sure if this cap thread is designed to fit the thread on the water housings boss, or even if I SHOULD disconnect the water meter "out"-end connection in the first place, since it may not re-seal correctly or require seals . Also, the HD guy said to use Teflon tape to seal the cap, but what about re-assembly and whether to clean or add Teflon tape, with or w/o seals or fittings. There are no visible signs of tape or dope now on either side of the water meter.

QUESTIONS:

1)How to finish the old 3/4" copper tube cut ends I'll be putting into the valve bores after using the tube cutter. I am not sure about inside burrs breaking away and floating into fittings downstream.

2)Which of my two valve assembly methods to use for sliding the valves' bores onto the tubes' cut ends, and what about ease of sleeve manipulation

3)Will I disconnect/re-connect at the water meters "out" connection and if there are any seals or fittings of any material I need to obtain, and if I can (safely) use a galvanized cap temporarily to stop the leaking water flow, with or without Teflon tape or plumbers dope

4)Is a compression fitting Kosher, especially since its a shut-off valve? I have it because there will be water flowing through if I don't disconnect at the water meter "out"-end connection, and I am a diy'er and not sure of my Vertical soldering anyway

[bent]

make that just plain "ball valve"

I have already bought a B&K 3/4" compression fitting ball valve. I was just trying to get to the bottom of the question with a lawyer, I mean plumber elsewhere.

[marson]

I'm no plumber, but I'll give you my two cents anyway.

The tubing cutter will leave a nice finish.

I'd cut out the section of pipe, disconnect it at the water meter, and insert the valve that way. Sliding things back and forth is a bitch IMO. You realize you'll get a flood when you cut into that vertical section of pipe, unless you have some way of draining the water below where you are going to splice in the valve.

I'd be careful with a galvanized cap. The meter has a compression type fitting which you might muck up with a cap. Not sure if NPT would work anyway. But I might be wrong--again, I'm no plumber. Should only take a few minutes to do the repair. Maybe you can get a helper to empty your bucket or whatever. Heck, I've stopped leaks by whittling a wooden plug and pounding it into the leak. That'd work, but then you might break the plug off and have a real mess on your hands.

I think a compression fitting is fine in this situation. A bigger problem for soldering than your leaking meter valve will be the water dripping from above...when I did this repair I was replacing the piping in my whole house so I had the luxury of dry pipes.

[Black Dog]

Why do you want to make this work hard ? Why do you not want to shut off the supply from the meter ? Why do you insist on using the valve you already have ? A FLARED compression fitting would be fine for a main shut off, but that is another problem if it twists when turning the handle.wal A ring sleeve compression fitting is prone to failure, especially if you over tighten the pipe cutter while turning it and collapse the wall of the pipe. Another factor is trying to sell the house later. An inspector with a mortgage company will see homeade plumbing right away. The report will list it as a major problem. I have been doing remodeling for over 30 years. Did I misunderstand your problem ?

[bent]

Why do you not want to shut off the supply from the meter ?

[bent]

thanks marson, can you tell me anything more about how the nut on the OUT of the meters threads seals that pipe watertight that connects there. I don't even want to turn it till I know if theres a washer or anything replaceable in there. Is it all steel? I have been googling my meter for some time and nothing yet w/r/t a schematic or anything.

[bent]

and what about what you were saying before about fixing it.

[bent]

I am talking about the main water shut-off valve 10 inches away from the water meter located before the meter. Are we talking about the same thing? Can I fix this?

[Black Dog]

Where are you at ? There should be a valve in the meter assembly unless you have a street valve. The city will have to shut it off. Some municipalities don't allow just any yahoo to touch the meter. $15 is not that much, especially if there is a fine touching the meter. You say "before the meter". Before would be before the water reaches the meter. Water supply only flows one way. Many meters have a check valve to make sure. I understand the bad valve you have to be AFTER the meter and prior to all of the other fixture shut offs. IE your main supply shut off.

[bent]

I have one leaking valve before the meter i.e leaking valve is closer to the street than the meter.

The meter itself has NO shut off capability.

I phoned the water company and they said this leaky valve was my problem (I explained it as before, they asked no questions, maybe I'll phone again since there may be some confusion).

Forget about the drywall. Lots of room. It looks nicer now I have insulated and painted the whole room. How about the valve being below the concrete slab level!!! If I ever had to spin off this one and only shut-off valve off without taking the hand wheel off first I'd just have to punch out the drywall, then repair and paint it again.

I am thinking of doing what marson did. Add another (better ball- type) shut-off valve after all the pipe-fitted thread cutted iron pipe - in the first piece of 3/4" copper tubing after the meter.

Back to the point. Can I fix the old valve, and do I need to shut the water off at the street, or at the one & same valve I am fixing, to do it. These questions are as important as any I have asked and will affect my decision. With hundreds of qualified people reading my several questions, I can count the useful comments on one hand - I am open to anything.

[Black Dog]

The faulty valve WILL leak unless you repair or replace IT. If someone else has to turn off the water so you can effect repairs, so be it. What planet are you on ?

[bent]

that makes sense, S/A 3