Confidence in my plumbing

[Jon]

Having done some plumbing work in my bathroom over the weekend, I'm now faced with a problem of confidence... how long should I give it before I can be confident that I can go to work and not come home to a house full of water? The stuff I did was a mixture of soldered joints (everywhere I could) and compression fittings (for isolation valves, connection to existing pipe which appeared to be a very slightly different diameter and in one place where I thought waving a blowtorch around could result in setting my hair on fire). Has anybody got any opinions on this?

It's really the compression fittings I'm unsure of - the soldered joints all seem fine, a couple of the compression ones dripped slightly after turning back on which in one case was solved by tightening it up (!) and the other by taking it apart and bunging more jointing compound in there.

In a slightly separate issue, is it possible to use isolation valves to reduce the flow of water to a fitting? All the taps in my bathroom come off the rising main which results in a large imbalance between hot and cold pressures - fine for the sink mixer but I had some problems with the old bath mixer. If I can't do this with the isolation valve, is there anything else I can use for this?

Thanks, Jon

[chris French]

In message , Jon writes

Once it's done it's done. IF a significant problem was going to occur it'd have happened by now.

It's quite common for compression joints to weep slightly - a slight tightening is fine - it's better than over tightening to start with. They shouldn't need any jointing compound at all - the joint is made my the olive compressing against the pipe and the fitting. If it needed jointing compound then it probably means the olive/pip/fitting was damaged in someway. but if it's fine now then I'd leave it alone.

Yes, I guess they can, but it's not what they are meant for.

Of course reducing flow rate is not the same as reducing pressure, reducing the flow may work enough - no harm in trying I guess. But a better option would be a pressure reducing valve. -you fit it in the pipe and adjust it to suit - they aren't expensive.

Alternatively replace the taps with ones that are designed for use on supplies with different pressures - they are not true 'mixers' as the ones you have now are, but keep the hot and cold separate up to the exit of the tap.

[a]

I know how you feel, I did a load of work yesterday in the kitchen ready for a new sink and plumbed in an outside tap too. As you say the soldered joints are nice and easy (although I did chicken out in the end and used solder ring fittings :o) but the 15mm compression joints are a bit of a pig. I was familiar with 6mm comp before as I used to run a lot of that a few years ago for instrumentation, but the 15mm ones are a lot harder to do up (I dread to think what 22mm are like). So far I just have a couple of joints on the valves that need nipping up but should be ok with a bit of luck.

As Chris said, anything major probably would have happened as soon as you turned the water back on (and I guess mains pressure would test the joints out quite well?).

[Gordon Henderson]

Have just done a lot of work in my bathroom recently myself and so-far all's well. I have a mix of soldered, compression (copper to chrome) and some generic push-fit (change of plans and they were easier to get hold of!) So-far so good. I did take care with pipe termination - used a decent cutter, polished the ends with steel wool (even the compression & push-fit ones) I used some PTFE on the end fittings (eg. flex hose to bath taps and cistern inlet) , and I smeared a bit of high-tack silicone on the ends of the pipes going into the push-fit stuff. (as well as the ends of the push-fit 40mm waste pipes!)

I have a mix of 15mm and 22mm. I temporarily capped the 22m with compression fittings at one point without any issues.

I did my kitchen last year - that was on mains pressure (bathroom is gravity feed, but will be pumped soon) My mains pressure is about 8 bar...

At some point, you just have to accept "thats it" and stop worrying. Last nights bath was wonderful!

Gordon

[mike ring]

"a" wrote in news:41346555$0$20249$ [e-mail]:

I used endfeed on my recent CH/DHW efforts (having used solder ring before, annd found them easier. The only joint that failed was a Solder ring reducer.

but the 15mm compression joints

With compression joints you need a pretty hefty spanner just to get on the nut.

I just nip it up enough to hold the pipe on assembly, with a bit more for luck, and tighten up a biy more when I turn on the water. Then I tighten up any that are weeping until they stop.

Basically I've a phobia about overtightening, some of the joints I've taken apart were really scary, big cinches in the pipe, new piping needed etc

mike

[Cicero]

================ Just one minor thing to watch. You said that one of the pipes seemed to be a different size. You might have a mix of old 1/2" pipe with new 15mm pipe. If the joint which required extra jointing compound begins to leak again do a quick check on your pipe sizes and if necessary re-make the joint with the correct size of olive.

Cic.

[Des Higgins]

In my limited experience (10-15 compression joints in an entire lifetime), about 1/3 of them weep a bit at first and most are cured by a further small tightening. After that, I have never seen one suddenly explode or for any weeping to get worse suddenly. The first ones I did, I was paranoid about and turned off teh mains before leaving the house for long so I sympathise :-).

Des

[Pete C]

Hi,

Has anyone tried annealing the olive for a compression joint, to see if it's less likely to leak?

cheers, Pete.

[Jon]

Thanks for all the replies on this. Nothing has exploded yet, so I'm feeling a bit more confident about the whole thing now.

The two compression joints that leaked slightly were both onto new pipework, but one was just before a bend which may have had something to do with it, and the other was onto one of those bendy copper pipes, the end of which looked like it had been slightly deformed so it's probably lucky they only leaked a bit!

Regards, Jon

[StealthUK]

Don't worry about it.

I was dismantling some mains water 15mm some time back which had been in place for over 30 years leak free. I pulled at one end of the pipe and it came straight out of the solder fitting coupler!

[Lurch]

On 1 Sep 2004 11:32:07 -0700, [e-mail] (StealthUK) strung together this:

Yep, I've done that before! Although I wasn't actually dismantling it till it fell apart, one was a 15mm pipe in a cupboard, that had been there for 30 odd years and just decided to leak when a piece of wood near it was moved!

[raden]

In message , Pete C writes

You really shouldn't need to if you make the joint correctly

[Jan Wysocki]

But it's a good idea if you're reusing olives. I've anealed copper olives and reused them with good results But it's a good idea if you're reusing olives. I've annealed copper olives and reused them with good results Some olives look like brass and I've never tried reusing them as I don't know if you can anneal brass.

[a]

strange things happen with pipes and water! Dont you just hate it when you turn off the main valve, open the taps upstairs, carefully break the connection downstairs and catch all the water - then a bit later someone goes and flushes the toilet and all the water in the pipe to the toilet ball valve comes rushing down out the pipe and all over the floor - grrr, never seen that warning before!

[Pete C]

Hi,

What would that involve?

cheers, Pete.

[stuart noble]

IME compression joints never leak if the connection is dead straight, and always leak if it isn't. But that's the sum total of my plumbing knowledge.

[chris French]

1. Pipe ends cut neatly (preferable with a rotary cutter - you can get them cheap), cleaned and deburred, not damaged or deformed etc.
2. Olives not damaged - I try not to reuse them (not just loosening a joint - but removing and reusing) a new olive is a better idea..
3. Make sure pipe is seated right into fitting (and stays there), and that it is straight not at an angle.
4. Don't over do the tightening, tighten nut by hand, the use a spanner, I tighten with the spanner until you feel the joint start to 'bite', then tighten it just a bit more- say 1/4 - 1/2 turn.
5. Turn on water, there maybe a bit of weeping, or dripping - if so, just nip the joint up a bit say 1/8 - 1/4 turn that should sort it.

There is normally no need for jointing compound or PTFE tape.

If a joint did persistently leak I might try a smear on the olive

[Pete C]

Thanks, sounds good...

I'm not so brave, I'd reach for the Boss White to begin with, if the joint was in a critical place.

cheers, Pete.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If you can remove an olive for re-use, the joint wasn't tightened properly.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Fernox do a tube of what smells like silicone sealer which is the dog's dangly bits. Not cheap, though.