On 7/27/2015 12:59 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
go back and start at the beginning, Clare. That was my first solution
to her disposal problem. Then, and only then, if that failed, set it
out for garbage collection a day or two ahead and the pickup truck with
the undocumented Democrats would grab it for her.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:46:06 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
Wasn't clear that the price tag wasn't to try to sell it.
A lot of people won't buy, and if it's worthless they won't pick it
up, but if they can steal something of negligible value - that's a
As a follow up, I got on ebay and did a search and found some capacitors and
contactors and have them on the way. Total cost was about $ 35 total for
If the thing holds out for a week I should be in good shape on that. Now I
have spares , I doubt I will ever have to replace either of those.
All this must be part of Murphy's law.
I realize Ebay has gotten a lotta bad press in the last few yrs. I even
quit selling cuz of their tightened rules for small sellers. But!
....ebay may be the way to go. My EZGO golf cart charger went belly
up. I supected the transformer and my shop manual testing procedure
confirmed it. New transformer? Try almost $700!!
No way I could afford that much, so looked on ebay. I found an older
model complete charger that claimed it worked for only $125. More
amazing, the fellow I bought it from paid the shipping. This sucker
weighs about 30-40 lbs! So far, this unit has been working, fine, for
the last yr and I saved almost $600. Go ebay! ;)
I thought $ 700 for a charging transformer was way too much and a whole
charger should be a lot less.
Other than being probalby 36 or 24 volts is there anything different than a
normal car charger ?
I have not tried selling on ebay, so can not say about that part.
Living in a small town and with the price of gas being what it is, I can
often find things on ebay cheaper than I can spend time and effort of
driving to a larger town 40 miles away to where there may be a supply
I bought some carborator rebuilding kits for my weedeater and chain saws off
ebay. I think they were less than $ 7 each counting shipping. By
ordreing 3 items from one place, I got a 4th item free.
Unless I need it right away, I often look on ebay and Amazon for things.
Usually I can get them for the same as store prices or less, but with free
shiping. Just bought 2 TV sets. One for me and one to give for a birthday
present. Ordred them from Best Buy as the shipping was free and I would
have had to drive over 30 miles each way to the nearest BB. Then I could
not be sure they would stock that modle. Shipping time was less than a week.
One day the local stores are going to go away just because of all the on
I don't know how it is now, but years ago many times a person could not walk
in off the street and buy something. I went with a friend to a boat motor
supply house. A fellow walked in off the street and needed a small part,
they could or would not sell him the part. My friend bought the part and
resold it to the fellow for what it cost. Normally he would have marked it
up about double.
For a good number of years my mother was a book keeper at a local electrical
supply company. I could get anyting they had for their cost plus 10%. I
don't recall the numbers, but they had 3 other prices starting at cost plus
30% and going up depending on how much business the others did with them.
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 6:40:13 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I wonder what would happen if a customer refused to pay the $369
and it wound up in small claims court. It would be an interesting
case, how far you can jack a price for a $20 common part that is
widely available. Courts generally don't want to get involved in
what's a fair price and I think in this case the tech would win,
because he told Ralph the price before he put it in and Ralph
agreed to it. But I
wonder what would happen where the customer didn't know the price
or agree to it before it was done? Seems there has to be some
limit on what they can jack part prices up to. Suppose they told
you the $20 cap was $500, $1000, etc?
Also, I'm not clear on what the final price for everything was.
I think Ralph is saying it was $89 for the call, $369 for the cap,
plus another $100 to clean the coils. That would be $558?
When people free market generators and such after a
hurricane, people scream about price gouging. And the
courts appear to take a stand, then.
I've heard (not living in hurricane country) that the
gas stations can't charge more for hurricane gas. No
incentive to put in a generator, so they do not. When
the hurricane comes through, the gas is same price,
but the store is closed and the pumps won't pump. All
the people who need gasoline are unable to find any.
Same deal with generators, not worth the bother.
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 9:28:45 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Agree with the observations. But some places have laws
that specifically cover natural disasters, emergency situations,
etc and it's only in those cases that I've heard of those
"price gouging" laws applying. I agree, it doesn't make
sense to me. If someone wants to load up a truck, drive
3 states over, stay up at night selling them, I have no
problem with them setting the price at whatever they want.
It serves a perfectly valid economic purpose, it encourages
people to bring in water, food, generators, etc.
It's also hard to imagine that the local hardware store is
going to suddenly jack up the price of generators and batteries.
The gain isn't worth the bad publicity, alienating customers,
etc. Some businesses would do it, but it's not the widespread
issue that the typicl lib, ant-business types want to make it
out to be.
It is different is an emergency and jacking up the prices. I don't know how
it is now at the baseball games, but a number of years ago I took the family
to see a major league baseball game. The water,soft drinks,and beer was all
the same price at about $ 4 each in the stands. At that time you could get
between 12 and 24 bottles for the same price in the stores. That is way
out of line, but no one had to pay for it if they did not want to. Found
out later you could bring in your own drinks if in plastic bottles and a
small cooler if you wanted to. Did that the next year.
Most of the time when I have had something done, they usually tell me the
price of the parts and things and ask if I want it done. Knowing full well
that 99% of the people will say go ahead.
You have it correct. I was told it would be $ 89 for the man to come out
and check the problem. He told me they had 5 levels of standard charges and
the one to replace the capacitor was $ 369. I could have let him go on his
way and replaced the capacitor myself. Being on a Saturday morning and no
parts I told him to go ahead. With this he did hook up the gauges and
thermocouples to the unit to give it a better checkout. Everything looked
He then said something about cleaning the coils, doing what they call a tune
up for a standard $ 100 aditional charge. Told him to go ahead. For what
it is worth the head pressure dropped from about 200 psi to 150 psi. This is
for a R-22 unit and it was about 90 deg outside at the time and pushing 80
deg inside. It could have been the dirt or the cool water on the coils that
dropped the pressure. Like I told the man, I know enough about the system
to be dangerous. I did get the required cards to work on all kinds of
refregeration systems where I worked. Did not have much practical
experiance with them as the mechanics did most of the work and about all I
did was hook up the wires to the motor or replace some control parts. All
the cards do is certify that you know the basic rules not to let out the
refregerant in the air.
The whole charge was around $ 558. The service man explained to me that
people don't seem to balk at paying prices for parts nearly as if they would
charge $ 300 to come out and then $ 50 for the part.
My dad worked at an appliance store and mother was a bookkeeper for the same
store, so I know a little about how things work out.
For a week-end and the work he did and the education I got, I am ok with the
total. I do have a capacitor and contactor on order from ebay incase either
go out. Total for them was less than $ 35 shipped.
If it had been just me I would have looked the thing over and if I could not
have found the problem or needed a part waited to Monday , but I have to
keep the wife happy no matter what the cost..Most on here would probably do
I admitt that I know very little about the temp/press curves and charts, but
I looked at a chart and it seems to show that at 90 deg F the r-22 should be
about 168 and the r-401 should be around 273. Did not see the r-12 in the
chart, but that is mainly used in cars and not in home systems.
It may not have been 90 deg at the time I looked at the gauges but should
have close to it, but unless I looked at the gauges wrong (I know they have
several scales on them,but was looking at the outside one and thought it was
psi) that is what they had. The coils could have been somewhat cooler when
I looked at them after he cleaned them as they may have been wet and the
water on them was cooler than the air as it came out of my well. The surge
tank is about 5 gallons and is under the house so it was in the cool.
I know the system is r-22 as that is what I wanted put in at the time. I
could have had either the 401 or r-22. I know r-22 was on the way out, but
had a container of that gas if I needed it. I looked on the side of the
unit and the name plate says r-22.
I don't think I mentioned it, but the system is a Trane Heat Pump. It is a
14 on the efficency number or whatever they call that number. The inside
coils were clean, he did clean them while doing the outside cleaning. The
filter is clean. He thought I had changed it before he arrrived. It was
put in about the first of the month. I use the inexpensive ones and change
them every 2 months. Even at that they don't look dirty. don't have any
animals or children in the house.
I don't recall the temperatures of the pipe comming off the high pressure
side going to the evaporator but thought they did not feel hot compaired to
the ones on other refrigeration units. He did hook up some thermocouples to
the lines and said I had 18 deg of superheat and 10 deg of sub cool. I
don't recall what that actually means from the very limiated exposuer I have
had to the systems. He did put some theromomiters in the inlet and outlet
and said that was ok, but don't recall what he said it was.
I am in the middle of NC and like you said on many days it is easy to tell
if the unit is working by the ammount of water running out the drain.
Ok on the SEER. I could not recall if SEER or some other leters were the
one for the cooling.
I am not sure what the coils have on them to help get rid of the heat. The
condensing unit fan only runs at one speed as far as I know. The one on the
air handler changes speeds. I don't think it is a true variable speed, but
has several preset speeds.
I think the speeds of the fans are really just a way to go to a larger seer
number. From what I read about 10 years ago when looking to put in a new
heat pump it seemed that anything above a rating of 14 was really a waste of
money. YOu may save a few dollars on power,but the price jump would take
years to pay back.
I understand about controling the head pressure to some extent. The
refregeration units at work had water cooled condensers and a valve on the
water to help control the head pressure. I guess that it opened up more as
the coils got dirty. Then the thing would shut down on high head pressure
and the mechanic would have to clean out the heat exchanger.
I had forgoten about that.
As I said I know a little about the stuff, but not a whole lot and it has
been way over 3 years ago that I last saw one.
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 9:03:28 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
From what I read about 10 years ago when looking to put in a new
I went through that analysis about 4 years ago and came to the
same conclusion for my AC. I got a 14 SEER too. It's not hot
enough here in NJ, nor are our electric rates high enough to
get a reasonable pay back. The only thing I might reconsider
paying more for would be a two stage, so that it can run more
on days where you just need it to take some humidity out. But
even that isn't really an issue here. If I drop the temp 1 or
2 deg, it's enough to get the humidity down enough.
Glad to see someone in agreement that going above 14 seer at the time was
going to take too long for the payback.
The two stage would be nice and as someone mentioned a 2 speed or variatable
speed on the outside fan. I don't recall those being mentioned when the
system was installed. As humid as it is around here, at 85 deg outside you
sweat and hard to get cool. The air needs to run a lot to get rid of that
humidity without cooling down too much. Then it may hit high 90's and we
need more cooling than the smaller unit can provide.
Whoever sized my unit (2.5 tons) seems to have it about right for around
here. The thing runs a lot when it is over 95, but runs enough at 85 deg to
knock much of the humidity out .
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