Does she need a bigger breaker box?

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC, and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??

Reply to
micky
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1) The box needs to be located where it is easily accessible. The bottom of the box typically 4' off the ground. 2) The word is "current" not "amperage."

If the water heater, clothes dryer and oven are all electric, I'd say

200 amp service would be in order.

If those appliances are gas, she may be able to get by fine with 100 amp service, depending on the size of the A/C unit.

Reply to
philo

What do you mean by "bigger box?

The main breaker will tell you how many amps you can handle. The number of slots will tell you how "big" the box is.

You can have 100A service, common about 1980, but not have enough slots to handle the individual circuits you want to have. Given the amount of electric appliances she has, it may well be 150 or 200A service.

Since she has empty slots, I'm going to assume you mean she wants to increase the amperage. Why? Does she trip the main breaker cooking in the oven with the AC on and the water heater working? If so, yes, she needs an increase. If no, never tripped it, no good reason I can think of except for that electric chair. Since most electrocutions are held at midnight, just don't use the oven or dryer during the ceremony.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Back in the day oid incandescent lighting and electric heat, 200 amp and larger services were relatively common - and required. Back then, people used electricity to heat their pools. Refrigeration and AC were pretty inefficient. Large screen CRT TVs sucked power.

Today, with LED lighting, Natural gas or heat pump heating, high SEER AC, LED TVs, etc, a 200 amp service is pretty much overkill for the average home.

If I turned on EVERYTHING in the house at once, I might get 100 amps of draw, unless I started welding at the same time.

That's running my lathe, clothes dryer, 4 stovetop elements AND the oven, with the AC running and all the lights on!!! - if I turn on the toaster, the crockpot, and the power cooker - as well as the microwave and the central vac, and my skill saw, I MIGHT be able to hit my 125 amp panel limit.

I just upgraded from100 to 125 amps when I replaced the fuse panel with a breaker panel a few years ago. (house built in 1974)

Now - If I buy an electric car, I MIGHT get myself into a bind if I want to use the "fast charge" - but my old electric Fiat charged on

120 volts, and was not an issue on a 15 amp fuse - - -
Reply to
Clare Snyder

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box" seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on

1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is 100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in under the wire.
Reply to
gfretwell

Yeah, I don't understand having to climb on a dryer and use a mirror to get to breakers.

And the first question would be why does she think she needs an upgrade? Unless the main is being tripped what's the problem?

Reply to
trader_4

I have 100. No way to use ac and kuerig same time. I turn off both before using 1100 watt mc.

Reply to
Thomas

I never popped my 100 amp fuses with the wife making dinner and running the drier at the same time -Oven on, stovetop on, coffee-maker or toaster - even with the AC running.

The only thing gas in the house is water heater and furnace.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

No pool, but she probably has LED tvs.

Oil heat, but probably new high eff. AC.

But FWIW, only 60 amp service.

I'm sure she doesn't do welding. I've been looking for an excuse to buy a welder, but so far, never tripped the main breaker.

I'll tell her to get that.

Reply to
micky

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Reply to
micky

The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60 amps.

Good question. It was a passing comment when I was there for something else. I'll ask.

Reply to
micky

60A is very low for a house built in 1980. Most went to 100A in the 60s or so. With AC, dryer, water heater and oven, she could be maxing out.

My first house was built in 1948 and had 30A. When I bought it in 1966 I upped to to 100A.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a

60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower administration.
Reply to
gfretwell

1951 NEC but who is counting. Even if the AHJ didn't adopt it for 10 years that still gets you into the 60s
Reply to
gfretwell

Will l;ikely need a new overhead service cable as well - Up here in Ontario you basically can NOT sell a house with a 60 amp service. Nobody will write new insurance on it - and with no insurance you can't get a mortgage.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Except for that the house is generally well designed, it was silly of me to figure one could tell much from the number of slots.

I will get the mirror and climb on the dryer and see what I've got.

Oops, only 60Amps

I'll ask her why she said that. My first reaction was that someone who stood to make money tried to sell her something, or someone she knows thinks everyone has to upgrade everything told her that.

I've never tripped the main breaker, but maybe I've never had the oven, the AC, the dryer, and the WH on at the same time. I think she lives alone too, but she probably cooks more than I do.

Good point.

Reply to
micky

Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

Reply to
micky

This is disappointing. I plan to live in my house until I die, if possible, but my friend might plan on moving.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news, which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.

Reply to
micky

Although it is not a standard disconnect size, are you sure that is not 90? You were looking in a mirror. ;-) Either that house is older than you think or something else is going on. To start with I have never seen a 60a service with breakers. They usually had a split bus panel with fuses. The pull outs were fed directly from the service for the stove and water heater and they had another pullout feeding the plug fuses. It may be time to call an electrician to sort this mess out. Something is not right. Have you looked at the property appraiser web site to see when they think it was built? The first thing I would look at is the size of the service conductors. If they are 4ga copper (2ga al) it is 100a.

Reply to
gfretwell

No.

You sure this isn't a sub-panel?

Reply to
trader_4

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