I was curious about that myself. They may have a meter main outside or something. That could be an MLO panel and the 60 could be for a load. We didn't ask if there was a furnace or toaster wire in an air handler supplementing a heat pump. If so that would usually be on a 60. Having talked to Micky before, I am thinking he might need some help on site.
That did make it difficult. Maybe I'll check again! I could look at it without a mirror if I turned it off, but that would mess up a bunch of clocks etc.
Not a chance. Mine is 1979. My neighbor's was built after mine and might be 1980
I've looked at the original deed and the county clerk's property records.
It's not aluminum. I'd alreaedy heard about the problems with aluminum and I was glad it didn't have that.
I could measure the copper** if I took the cover off the breaker box. I've done that before.
**Not directly but by making markings on a piece of white cardboard and holding it up to the wireBTW, houses in my subdivision sell all the time. I don't believe they've all gotten increased service. I see other trucks in the area but never an electrician. I googled for real estate ads and some give a lot of information but none mention the electrical service (which they wouldn't if it were below average or even average) I can see who has bought lately, and if there were a way to do it tacfully, I could ask them. My next door neighbor bought the house 2 or 3 years ago and I was down in his basement. I think I would have noticed if the box were different. Somewhere I have the phone number for my ex-neighbors who sold it to him. The husband redid the bathroom, including plumbing, and he showed it to me but never said anything about electrical.
Positive.
I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all part of the same sub-division? If the same builder he probably used the same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.
Take a picture of it with a cellphone/digital camera. Just shotgun it, sooner or later you'll get a usable pic.
I asked that at the beginning, why the interest in the upgrade. And I agree, it doesn't sound like a panel upgrade alone is needed, because he says there are empty slots. So it's probably a service upgrade that he's talking about, unless the service is already
100A or larger and they put a 60A panel in. And if doing a service upgrade, if the service has to be upgraded then it might as well be to 200A. One thing everyone agrees on 60A service circa 1980 for a 3 floor, 3 bedroom house sure doesn't sound right, if it was permitted, done by a pro, etc. I asked if this could be a subpanel, particularly because he says the main breaker is on the side, in the middle of the panel. IDK, maybe they make main panels like that, but I never saw one.
Great idea. Never would have thought of that. I was thinking of using two mirrors! or noting which direction the tail of the 6/9 went.
Right and right.
Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?
You inspired me to dig out the blueprints, but as I recalled, the ones I have are detailed but they don't go into the electrical system.
Get a picture of the meter bank. If this is a multifamily I bet there is a meter main and this is an MLO sub panel that does not have a Main breaker in it. My wife is building a 4 plex like that right now. What kind of heat does she have?
Sure you've seen one. It's just a panel with no vertically-oriented. double wide slot at the top. It just has two rows of horizontal slots and they used slots 5 and 6 down from the top, on the right, for the main breaker. Above that on the left and right are the 4 pairs of breakers for 220v appliances and below that are the 12 single breakers for 110 stuff.
It's one of 100 townhouses built on one piece of land over a year or two starting in 1979.
For a while, I was even in the same social organization as the son of the banker who financed the project, whose father got him a summer job working as a laborer on some of the houses. And the electrician lived in one of the houses for maybe 10 years. You could tell his house because it has real lights along the sidewalk, and it has a vent to the outside above the front sliding glass door to vent the range. Everyone else just has a range hood that merely recirculates the air. After he moved out of here, I'd see his electrical truck parked outside a "detached" house about a mile away. And the guy who did the landscaping and plowed the snow used to live here too.
Maybe in the mind of whoever did the work, but in the code it's based on the loads that are there. So a house and townhouse or condo with the same loads, same square footage, should have the same min service. Of course local authorities can do what they please. Slipping the inspector some bills might help in some cases too. I know of condos here that were built, where instead of footings for the decks, they threw a shovel full of concrete in a small hole, for example. That building inspector was last scene headed for parts unknown. The mayor, the FBI raided his house and found $50K in his attic.
What I said was I never saw a main panel where they used a breaker in the middle as the main breaker. You do see that for sub-panels. Main panels I've seen come with the breaker installed and I've never seen one in the middle.
May have back then. I don't know for sure the code in 1980 but today, it is 100A for a single family residence NEC 230.79(D)
Minimum service size has been 100a since 1951. (NEC) Since Micky has said this is a multifamily, it is pretty likely the panel he is looking at is a sub and there is a meter bank and a disconnect somewhere else. I have a plan sitting on my dining room table for a multifamily under construction that uses a MLO panel in each unit. I am still wondering if that 60a goes to an air handler. He has not answered what kind of heat they have.
It used to be that I couldn't use the microwave in the evening in December, because Christmas lights were on the same circuit. That problem is gone now since most of the lights are LED.
My house was built in 1969 and has a 100A main breaker (includes electric dryer and stove). There is a separate 50A breaker for the A/C (although the new unit should be using no more than half that).
BTW, a friend's house was built before central A/C and has 240V 20A receptacles in each room (for window A/C). Now, a bedroom can be cooled with a 120V 5A unit.
I'd call it "current". "amperage" comes from a measurement unit, and is not really appropriate here. Some people use those words, like wattage, voltage, and poundage (but not secondage, hertzage, or faradage). I seldom hear what "voltage" really is.
[snip]
It's a townhouse, but I didn't say it was multifamily. It's not like NYC where many brownstones were built with a servants' apartment in the ground floor (and now still have a separate apartment there, though not for servants), and some have been converted to 2 or 3 apartments above that. These are all one family, with a meter for each house
The meter is less than 10 feet from the breaker box. Of course the box is inside in the baseement, and the meter is outside in front of the first floor, but laterally there is almost no distance.
I don't remember seeing that question. It's oil heat.
This url is another one from Canada, but it claims that if the meter sits on a rectangular metal box, the service is probably 100amps. And with no box it's 60. The problem with that is that I don't remember ever seeing one that looks like the 60/no box.
If it is a "straight through " meter it is 60 or less, but a 60 can also be on a box base - but usually smaller than the one shown.
If it's 4 ga copper it will SUPPORT a 100 amp panel. Could still have a 60 amp main installed.
Square D STILL makes a 60 amp distribution panel - Model #CQO116M100C60
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.