I have a 200-amp capable "Federal pacific" breaker box in my 44 year old home. I've been told by a home inspector that the box is unreliable and the breakers "can occasionally no-trip and could potentially cause a fire" This, obviously, scares me.
The breakers aren't the cheapest or super-easy to find, but I haven't had to replace any in the year or so I've lived in this house, the unit seems reliable. Also, the breakers have tripped a few times as the circuits have around 8-10 receptacles on a few runs in some cases.
I'm considering doing some remodeling, including the addition of can lights (about 20 of them) and a few receptacles...all on new runs as the breaker box isn't much more than half full.
Should I consider replacing the service panel and breakers to a current model like a Square D as part of this remodel? After all, it doesn't make much sense remodel a house that's going to just burn to the ground anyway.
I would. I have personal experience with FPE circuit breakers not tripping from dead shorts. My brother jokes that it is possible to weld with a wire connected to an FPE breaker.
You pretty much answered your own question, didn't you?
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This guy is promoting himself, of course, as well, but it appears the data referenced are real and FPE did go under after a set of legal challenges and lawsuits. The CPSC began and closed an inconclusinve investigation way back in '83 or so and while I've not found it directly(but haven't looked extensively, either) there's at least an implication that FPE may have actually falsified some data supplied from tests supplied for UL testing and that UL "de-listed" the original FPE breakers. The replacements from Federal Pioneer in Canada have, to the best of my knowledge, a UL or equivalent rating, whether that is somehow based on previous qualification or were/are newly qualified I've also not been able to resolve unambiguously. (But, again, I've not done extensive "research", only poked around at what I could find on occasion as there are several FPE panels here in the house, barn, other outbuildings dating to roughly same time frame.)
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Overall, it does appear is that there is at least a risk of a trip failure from a mechanical "jam" of the handle preventing opening w/ the older FPE breakers. Without substantiating data, there's no real way to judge the frequency of this as compared to other breakers, which I've not seen at any point.
My judgement would be, it's fairly inexpensive in comparison to an overall sizable remodeling project budget, and that would also seem a convenient time to update other things in an older home, so I'd probably spring for it. That essentially is my plan. As in your case, I've never had a failure to trip, and have seen no signs of any other problems. I have replaced one breaker that showed some signs of overheating at the connection, but that appeared to be related to a contact condition at that point rather than anything to do with the breaker itself. Such an incident is not particularly unuique to FPE -- a slightly loose connection can exhibit the same symptoms at any connecting point, not just a breaker.
I'd strongly recommend replacing the FPE incendiary device. I replaced the one in my house with a good Square D QO series 40 space panel and sleep much better at night. I had heard all the bad things about FPE before and had replacement high on my to do list anyway, but it wasn't until I started tearing the old POS apart that I realized what a POS it really was. As an additional note, since the FPE panels are pretty old, replacing them may get you an insurance discount if your insurance company charges more for 30+yr old electrical.
Any electrical panel with breakers that old should be considered suspect, irregardless of brand. If you could just replace the breakers with new ones, you would be perfectly fine. However, that's not economically viable in your case, so replacement is probably a good idea.
Having said all of that, I have one fo these panels, and I have replaced many of my 1962 breakers with newer ones made in the 80's and I am perfectly fine with the panel. I have also tested all of my breakers and they all work fine. The single pole breakers are as good as any others their age. The two pole FPE breakers are the ones that are notoriously bad. And unlike almost all the other FPE bashers, I actually have an electrical Engineering degree and actually know what I'm talking about.
How much should I expect to pay to replace just the service panel and all the breakers? (I don't do stuff that can kill me alone) Also, what brand and size should I replace it with? It's a 200 amp now, should I spring for a 200 this time around?
Not at all. In addition to unreliable breakers, the FPE panels, at least the "stab-loc" ones suffer from a truly atrocious and inadequate buss attachment connection. Even if the breakers were prefect, the buss itself is a threat.
See above comments. Perhaps you don't have a "stab-loc" version, but if you do and think those bus connections are OK then your engineering degree is either in an unrelated field or should be revoked.
If you have a 200A service now I would definitely not go any smaller. Despite talk of energy-efficient this, that, and the other we seem to put more and more demands on our electrical systems as time goes by. Even if you don't use a lot of juice, if you ever go to sell the house, anything less than a 200A service will probably be called "inadequate" by the buyer's home inspector.
Figure around $400 in materials for a good Square D QO panel and breakers, a little less for the lesser brands. Labor would vary greatly by market and by other factors that could make the job easy or difficult like access to the panel.
Also, replacing a panel can NOT kill you, panel replacements are done with the power off, usually be pulling the meter.
Thanks Nate...that makes perfect sense. 200 amp it is. Have an electrician coming out soon... he's a friend of a friend and is highly recommended. I'm stopping by walmart on the way home for a fire extinguisher, good to have around regardless of my service panel. ;-)
How can I tell if mine is a "stab-loc" type? From what I've read, it's best to replace it no matter what kind it is, but stab-loc's are the electrical version of napalm.
Also, has anyone had this type of work done? How much should I expect to pay? I'd hate to pay too much just because I didn't want to wait an extra few days for a better quote.
My main & subs are both Square D QO type & I am very happy with them
How big is the house? Good idea to do or have done a load calc.
My house (1930) had a 60 amp service (fuse type) that was changed out to 100 amp Square D in the 70's before I bought the place. A 100 amp panel is just a little small for my current needs but proabably not worth a change.
A 200 amp panel is hard to fill up unless you're going to add a lot of square footage in your remodel andhave a bunch of electric applances (stove, oven, a/c, pool.
A 200 amp might be a little big but a 100 amp is probaly too small....again it depends on current & future load.
Oh yea, of course stick with 200A. Short of doing a new load calc after a big energy reduction audit and appliance replacement, I would never downgrade a service. Also the cost difference between a 100A and 200A panel is really small.
If it's a "stab-loc" it will usually have a label with that name on it. If you have the cover off or can otherwise see the buss i.e. empty breaker spaces in the cover, the bus is flat and has little triangular holes where the breakers "stab" in. I think there are pictures on one or more of the sites people have referenced.
My 200A 40 space QO is filled to 34 spaces. Two spaces for the Square D "Surge Breaker" surge suppresser, two spaces for the generator back feed breaker with the Square D interlock kit, two spaces each for the stove, dryer, A/C, four spaces for two heating feeds, two spaces for the shop feed, etc.
If you are going to stick with a 200A, just make sure you get one with enough extra space in it for more breakers for future expansion. You can almost never have too much extra space in there. And over time stuff tends to get added or put on it's own breaker. If you don't already have things like your microwave and toaster oven on their own breakers, as well as all of your appliances on their own, now would be the time to figure that into the new box.
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