Conventional oil hard to find?

When my old Chevelle was blowing a quart of oil every 1000 miles or so, the filter was all I changed.

I am embarrassed to say how little I have actually done to this Honda. The big ticket is I paid a dealer $1000 to do a belt. Step one in the shop manual is "remove engine". In real life they take the motor mounts loose and tilt it up after removing a bunch of stuff. It does not line up with a wheel well on a Prelude like it does on an Accord. It is tight against the frame where the strut mounts. They also replace the rear main seal water pump and some other stuff on that deal. Other than that I put a knock sensor in it, a clutch master cylinder and slave (can we say that now)? A set of tires plus two. Some door handles and a plastic piece in the dash that crumbled. The O ring under the oil filter housing went bad I think the oil has been changed 8-10 times since 2002. Other than that I put gas in it and drive. I am just waiting for it to blow up. I will take the tags and let the guy at AAA who comes to get me have it. He can drop me off at a rental car place. I paid $13k in 2002 maybe another $3-4k since then and that's it. I think I got my money's worth out of it. I really don't care anymore. I actually think it will last another couple of years.

Boat forums too. You wouldn't believe how many people are happy to pay Yamaha $8-9 a quart for Yamalube, like there is a refinery outside Yokohama specially blending motor oil for them. The owners book specifically says any decent motor oil is fine but they "recommend" Yamalube. ConAgra "recommends" you put Hunts ketchup on your Armour hot dogs too but it won't really make them taste any better.

The advice somebody gave me when I was struggling with an old Volvo repair:

Put a screwdriver and bicycle in the back seat. When it dies take the tags and ride home and forget it.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money. It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them. But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think. The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.

Why do you think many manufacturers recommend a filter every 2nd oil change?

If filters were $100 it would make some sense to wait. For 10 bucks, give me a new one.

I explained in patient detail that oil filters don't wear at the same rate. And yet you still make all your decisions based only on dollar bills.

Trust me when I say that I fully & completely understand how you think. Many people are exactly like you are and in fact perhaps most people are.

They don't care to understand the design & engineering of the product. They don't understand why the manufacturer recommends the intervals they do. They don't understand that oil wears differently than do the oil filters.

More to the important point they don't care or even try to understand. It's hard for them to even try to understand not everything is about money.

Like you they make all their decisions in their life based only on money. Money is the only thing they understand because it's easy to understand.

And that's OK. Replacing parts often and well before they need to be replaced works too. You can change your oil filter for any reason and interval you want to.

Oh, I understand but conditions vary too. Short trips in a very cold climate versus highway driving in mild temperatures. Oil should really be tested and not just changed at some magic interval of one size fits all. I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow test. Not just about money too. I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

You don't think manufacturers took all that into account when they often recommended a filter every 2nd oil change under normal driving conditions?

I don't disagree on having your oil sent out after the fact for testing.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns exist. (1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best? (2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best? (3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best? (4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best? (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money. I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK). I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy. They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like. They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK. You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does. And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says. And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like. But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

I keep seeing references to Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil. on many different websites, yet I have not seen that recommendation in an owner's manual The only specific recommendations I have seen referenced are on Honda in the USA. Toyota has always recommended oil and filter together Kia and Hyundai do to. All if my Fords and Chryslers have too - so who are the "many manufacturers"??

And YOU - supposedly an engineer, do not understand that "oil" does not "wear out". The additive packagegets depleated and the oil gets dirty. It sometimes gets diluted with fuel. The job of the filter is to catch the solid contaminants. The filter (or the engine - depending on the design) has a "bypass" that opens when the pressure across the filter medium excedes a set limit. When it bypasses, the oil is no longer filtered. PARTICULARLY with direct ignition engines there can be a lot of fine carbon deposited in the oil -and the better the filter you hve the faster it will get restricted becauseit catches more of the "fines". You have NO WAY to know how close to "full" the filter is and what the pressure differential across the filter is. Unless the filter capacity is deliberately over-engineered for some reason - perhaps to convince buyers they are "saving money" buying that brand because they only need to change the filter every second time - it is "false economy" to change the filter every seconf time.

In actualfact - using synthetic oil it would make MORE SENSE to change the filter half way through the extended drain interval for the "superior" oil.

The "recommendations" in the manual are "minimum required service" to get your vehicle through warranty

ANd harder for YOU to understand the "real world" it appears

Asn you are free to do whatever your super sophisticated "mensa" mind instructs you to do.

I have a screwdriver in the glove compartment but I am too polite to leave the car on the side of the road. I have AAA ;-)

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy another one. I am sure the intervals for old cars should be shorter than a new one if oil contamination was your main issue. More stuff will get by the rings for one thing. OTOH people who always drive old cars don't really care.

Because they did their testing on new engines without a lotm of blowby.

--scott

Even so for anyone to claim oil filters wear at exactly the same rate the oil wears is just proving they don't understand there are oils that are "longer lasting" and there are filters that are "longer lasting" (just as their are oils and filters that are shorter lasting and conditions matter).

They're completely different things (oil & filters) with different specs. And they're made completely differently and they also wear differently.

Every manufacturer has a maintenance table for when to check/change things. In addition, each manufacturer of oil & filters does things differently.

There are a lot of oil specs out there to consider SAE 0W20, 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, 5W40, 10W30, 10W40, 15W50 ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12 API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP BMW LL-01 Chrysler MS 6395 FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2 Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A GM-Opel LL B-025 GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3 Honda HTO-06 ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3 MB-Approval 229.5 Porsche A40 Renault RN0700, RN0710 VW 502 00 - 505 00

And there are a lot of oil filter teardowns where I've dremeled open many of my own oil filters & I even used to send out my oil for testing years ago.

If you ask me what I base my oil filter change intervals on I'm going to answer that I base intervals on things other than just money & convenience. (1) I look at filter pleating, surface area, micron spec, edge glue & seam (2) I look at the size and thickness & antidrainback valve material (3) I especially check the type of overpressure valve (some don't exist!) (4) I pick at the mating gasket to see if it tends to easily fall off (5) I check the inlet holes for the number and overall diameter (6) I like to look for the mating threads machined from the outside in (7) I like filter cans that are 20 & 30 thou rather than 15 thousandths (8) I look at the type of oil that I'm putting in and the type of driving

It's fine for him to claim that he only cares about money & convenience. He can change his oil filter on any interval he wants and that's OK with me.

But if he asks me why I follow the manufacturer recommendations then he's going to get more of an answer than just money & convenience specifically because neither is what I use to determine my oil filter change interval.

In that off hand list I forgot to mention what I found the first time I tore apart a $15 Fram filter from AutoZone (which had the worst pleating ever!)

Far less expensive oil filters have steel end plates and synthetic pleating without visible gaps at the ends and a with a long steel clamp at the seam!

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000 miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of thousand?

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5 filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty and peace of mind.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit. Owners manual says change the filter.