Clare, Xeno.... did you ever have a batch of tires that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?

[Arlen G. Holder]

Thanks for answering that question about HOW the bicycle tire tube can be pulled out from under the bead, where I admit I had to look up "Ruglyde". o AGS RG18 Gal Ruglyde Lubricant

o RuGlyde Tire Mounting Lubricant - Rubber Based - Balkamp

Another potential reason the 16 inch bicycle tire tube might be so easily removed is that the bead might have been 'cinched', but it's not yet 'set'.

I'm not sure of the words to describe it, but there are three stages

1. When the bead isn't holding air
2. When the bead is holding air - but barely - where it still can deflate
3. When the bead is firmly holding air - even if there is no air

The fact that there is a stage in the middle is perhaps why the tire tube can be pulled out so easily.

I really like the idea of the bicycle tire tube since it's so simple, where I love simple tools that are effective (for example, a tire iron is a simple, and yet effective tool, as is the schrader valve core remover).

The one tool I had thought I didn't really need was the valve removal prybar, where removing valves isn't all that hard using normal shop tools like a knife and pliers - but - it is kind of sort of nice to have when installing those rubber valves - where I prefer - as you do too - the metal bolt on valves moving forward - so there will be less of a need for that tool.

The two tools I haven't gotten yet - but should are o The round bumpy inside tire buffer attachment to the drill for patchplugs o A special steel wheel weight plier tool

[Arlen G. Holder]

Thank you for adding value to this discussion, as did Clare, and Amuzi, where I was unfamiliar with this "split rim" concept until I read the article you kindly referenced.

Apparently, from the safety alert at the bottom of your reference, these "split rim" mountings are used mainly for LARGE commercial tires, is that right?

If so, I wonder what's different about large commercial tires? o Obviously size is one thing - which could mean more energy o The pressure per unit area "might" also be different o Maybe mounting needs determined the reason for the split ring?

I don't know yet ... so I simply ask ... WHY ... they bother with split rims for these huge commercial tires?

Is it mounting considerations? Or some other reason that they use split rims for such huge tires?

[Arlen G. Holder]

It seems to me that in a commercial environment, workers wouldn't be allowed to use that method since it has to be unapproved by OSHA (and they had the bazooka clearly in the background, along with the strap).

Interestingly, I've been scanning the videos to see if most people set the bead on or off the jig, where I wonder if putting the tire on a flat surface helps with the explosive setting (by not allowing the air:fuel mixture to escape out the bottom).

While I was searching for tips on setting the bead, I was amazed that this guy, after a half dozen failed attempts, at time 114, was able to explosively set the bead on passenger car tires that seemed to have about 4 or 5 inches of distance to cover - where I noticed he had the tire on a pallet which allowed the air:fuel mixture to escape out the bottom before it was ignited.

This guy put the wheel at an angle on a wooden block before exploding it

where I'm not sure WHY he put it on that wooden block.

In summary, I think the options for loose beads seems to be: a. Use a second or third helper (to jiggle things into Goldilocks range) b. Use a bazooka to blast in air (which seems to be what the pros use) c. Use a bead ring of some sort (bicycle tube, garden hose, goop, whatever)

And, lastly.... d. Resort to flames. But only as a last resort which you shouldn't need.

[Arlen G. Holder]

What's interesting that used to work fine on belted tires was a static balance in the olden days.

This is an interesting video using the dynamic balance machine, where, at least on the first tire, they got perfect balance simply by aligning the yellow dot to the valve stem like you suggested a while ago I do.

Some day I'll take my statically balanced tires to Costo for their $5 balance per tire - but - so far - I haven't needed to do dynamic balance since the static balance doesn't result in noticeable vibration at speed.

My plan is to wait until I have an unbalanced tire at speed, and then I can have all four checked for $20 in total, where it would be interesting to see how much difference there is between static and dynamic balancing.

[trader_4]

Bingo! It would be near impossible to force a big honking truck tire over the lip of a rim and more so without damaging it.

[Clare Snyder]

Ease of mounting. No need to pry heavy tire over rim bead. Just slide the old tire off and the new one on - after prying out the split ring - then putting it back in.

My old 1928 Chevy sedan also used a split rim - as did many OLD vehicles. They have moved predominantly to single piece roms now - and even TUBELESS tires!!! -even on the big rigs.

[Tim+]

I’m sure that with a bit of ingenuity, an old gas bottle, a full bore quarter turn ball valve and a few bits of pipe you could make yourself one... ;-)

Tim

[Xeno]

Tyres have the potential to *create their own* flammable gas inside the tyre. It is why those truck tyres explode and why an inert gas (nitrogen) is used to fill them.

Changed plenty of them over the years - it's more about incompetent operators than it is about the split rims.

[Xeno]

Yes, that is true. Each case is different and needs assessing on its own merits. The aim is to get each bead as close to, if not mounted on, the rim on each side and - whatever works.

[Xeno]

A chap in a haultruck workshop where I once worked once rode an exploding rim up and over the roof beam of the workshop - and they were tall enough to have the truck's dump tray fully up whilst within the workshop. Surprisingly he survived but was horribly crippled.

[Xeno]

They are *huge*, to large and inflexible to work by hand. They also have a *flat base rim* and not the well base rim you would be familiar with. Think how well you would fare changing a tyre without that well in the rim.

Yes and more.

[Xeno]

No it didn't. What used to be a saving grace was the narrow large diameter tyres, that and the high friction inherent in king pin type suspension systems. Suspension design also played a huge role in precipitating the wheel shimmy that was initiated by out of balance wheels. The first English Fords (Consuls, Zephyrs and Zodiacs) were really bad on dynamic wheel balance exacerbated by their small 13" wheels. They didn't have the bugs ironed out of the McPherson Strut at that time.

Static balancing can, at best, reduce dynamic unbalance by 50%. That

*may* be sufficient to prevent initiation of steering shimmy - or it may not. Luck of the draw.

[Xeno]

What about large farm tractor tyres? They do not use a split rim, instead use a well base, at least on all those I have changed in sizes up to 6 or 7 feet in overall diameter. Done the changes with nothing more than bead breaker, tyre levers and a rubber mallet. It's filling them with water that's the real pain in the arse.

[Clare Snyder]

No - neither statement is true. Tire "explosions" on the road do NOT include deflagration - any fire is due to overheated rubber bursting into flame long after it has lost inflation.

[Clare Snyder]

Incompetent operators using - wait for it - "improper technique" - and there have been many "competent" operators who have died oe been injured - and many more saved by the cage - which is whythe cage is MANDATORY

[Clare Snyder]

I've seen cages badly damaged too - but have never seen or heard of anyone being maimed or killed by a tire properly caged - or of one "getting out".

[Clare Snyder]

A tractor tire is pretty pliable compared to heavy equipment tires (or aircraft tires - which often use "two piece" rims)

[Xeno]

Work practices at that place were "novel"to say the least. I wasn't working in the haultruck workshop at the time, I had my own little workshop devoted to light vehicles across the way. Did work in the haultruck workshop on my next stint there some years later however and work practices were remarkably improved, funny that!

[Xeno]

Yes, they are pliable, no argument there! ;-) Damn bulky though.

[Xeno]

They do on haul trucks. That's why the large mining companies here have a tyre company under contract to do all tyre maintenance work.

This company has a large presence in this country