Breakers compatible with Federal Pacific Stab-Lok Load Center

[clare]

A 15 amp breaker will no more protect a 10 amp cord than a 20 will protect a 15 amp cord

You cannot legislate intelligence

[clare]

A good friend of mine is working on an "intelligent " power plug system that would read the power rating of the load and program the protection level of the outlet to match - but it cannot support an extention cord.

[clare]

I still think you'd make a better lawyer - - -

[clare]

Funny, I have both 20 and 30 amp extention cords.

[krw]

How does that work? Why not just fuse the plugs, as the Brits do? Simple beats complicated all to hell.

[The Daring Dufas]

I'm sure you know that a lot of gear has a fused IEC14 inlet on the back of the case. If the equipment short circuits, the fuse blows and I would guess prevent an over current on an undamaged power cord. ^_^

TDD

[trader4]

Nothing was missed either by me or the others here, like CL, none of whom agree with you. Like most people, I plug most appliances, lamps, etc into whatever receptable is closest and convenient. Exceptions would be if it were a large load and then I would consider what else is on the circuit. The folks who write the NEC obviously understand that and they are OK with putting 15 amps receptacles on 20 amp circuits. If you disagree, as Bud suggested, feel free to take it up with them.

And my point is that if this is in fact a safety issue, that you should not plug a 1 amp device into an outlet on a 20 amp circuit, why exactly doesn't any device manual say that? Curious thing. They have all kinds of safety warnings, but I don't ever recall one for an appliance, light, etc saying "Warning! Not to be used on a circuit with a breaker larger than 15 amps" Can he show us some examples?

Right. You could overload a 10 amp cord on a 15 amp breaker by 33%. If you put a 15 amp cord on to a circuit with a 20 amp breaker, you only overload it by 25%.

As Bud suggested, he should take that up with the NEC and UL who are obviously OK with it.

[krw]

Sure, but that doesn't protect the cord. It's obviously not a sufficient problem to get the NFPA's interest.

[The Daring Dufas]

I seem to recall reading something about New York City not allowing any power strips whatsoever. Those ubiquitous surge arrester strips were not to be used by anyone and I found it quite puzzling. If it's true and I'm not just remembering things that aren't there, perhaps one of my Damn Yankee cousins could set me straight. ^_^

TDD

[krw]

When I was working for IBM, the normal commercial power strips were forbidden. They had some "listed" ones that were used sparingly. The strips mounted on benches were allowed, but pretty well controlled. Extension cords were strictly forbidden for anything other than a

*temporary* installation. At my CPoE, I am allotted *one* duplex outlet. That has to do for not only my four computers (laptops), three monitors, and all of my lab equipment (scope, power supplies, meters, etc.). I have power strips plugged into power strips, three deep. Everyone is in the same situation and some have even more equipment in their cubes.

[The Daring Dufas]

When I worked as a bench tech at a repair depot, guys were bad about pranking each other. Our benches had a master switch which controlled the power outlets on the bench. One hapless victim came in, sat down, flipped the master switch and it was as though the sun suddenly appeared for one second because some prankster had wired a bunch of 12 volt dial lights across the 120 volt supply. I was always switching the contents of freeze spray and tuner wash in the cans. I'd get an empty can for each then using my handheld vacuum pump, pull as much of a vacuum as I could on the empty can after which I simply plugged the small extension tube between the spay nozzles and depressed them. Freeze spray into the tuner wash can and tuner wash into the freeze spray can. When the victim tried to spot cool a component, he got tuner wash all over his work. Of course it evaporated in a few minutes. I wasn't so mean as to put water in a can unless I was making a super squirt gun. ^_^

TDD

[bud--]

UL lists #18 extension cords. UL knows they know those cords will be used on 20A circuits. #18 wire in a cord is rated 10A, too low for a 15A circuit.

The NEC explicitly allows home-made cord sets with #16 wire (13A) on 20A circuits.

The NEC allows UL listed extension cords with 15A plugs on 15 and 20A circuits.

The system is working as intended by UL and the NEC.

You are "an arrogant SOB" wanting New Orleans to enforce the NEC other than how it is clearly written.

If you don't like how it works write a code change proposal and petition UL to make changes in its standards.

[krw]

Forty years ago, we used to prank on each other at work, all the time. One of my coworkers was a particular target. One time I took the insulation off some coax (matching all the coax between instruments) and ran it across the bench in back of his, under the setup he was testing. When he put a cover on it to do temperature sensing, I blew smoke through the tube.

One of the other guys filled the tech's pipe tobacco pouch with pencil shavings and chopped up rubber bands. What was really funny is that he didn't notice, though everyone else was running for the doors.

[The Daring Dufas]

I only prank those I like and and my pranks are never destructive of property, unless I supplied the item to be destroyed. I don't prank those people I don't like because I'm afraid I might become malicious and I don't like to hurt people, even nasty people. I believe in Karma and what goes around comes around. I've seen so many ambulatory turds eventually get their butts nailed to the wall and it's well deserved. ^_^

TDD

[Let's get it right!]

Intelligence? You realize a 15-ampere circuit breaker provides more protection than a 20-ampere circuit breaker? You are aware of that ... aren't you?

As far as the ampacity of the conductors, it has nothing to do with the problem ... as long as it's been evaluated as part of the "Listing" effort.

So ... you gonna do it like the NEC requires, or or you gonna ignore the responsibilities imposed upon you by NEC?

Have a save 2014! I'm done trying to educate the "EXPERTS"(?).

[sms]

Your theory is that every device plugged into a circuit with a 20A breaker must have wiring that can handle 20A in case the device malfunctions and draws the full 20A.

It's an interesting theory though you're wrong of course. The breaker protects the internal building wiring, not each individual cord or device plugged into that wiring, each of which draws less than the total available current.

The cord or device needs its own protection. For example, at my daughter's dorm the rule is that power strips must have their own circuit breakers. She complied with this, but most cheap power strips don't have circuit breakers and the university never checks up on this.

If an unprotected device with wire that was rated for 15A had a short that caused a high current through the wiring then the 20A circuit breaker would still trip long before the wire caught fire.

[clare]

OK You cannot legislate COMMON SENSE. No matter what nanny-state laws are put in place, stupid people will continue to kill themselves and burn down their homes. When you get close to Idiot Proof, they just come up with a better idiot.

If you never put more load on a cord than it was designed for AND maintain the cord properly, using it for the purpose it was made for, you won't have a problem.

If, on the other hand, you require 5 amp devices ONLY be plugged into circuits that are protected to 5 amps, and 15 amp devices only be connected to 15 amp protected circuits, you will need EVERY outlet separately protected, and you will need numerous different outlets in all locations so you can plug everything into an outlet that is protected to the rating of the device, or you will require every device to have it's own user resettable overcurrent protection in the plug - which is how it has been done in some european countries (where, by the way, the building wiring is not nearly as well "protected" as it is in North America. Ring wiring topology is a real bugger to adequately protect as it is fed from both ends.

So have a happy new year, and I'mm GLAD you are done trying to educate experts. That way I don't need to add you to my filter.

[sms]

He's a troll. The whole "Let's get it right!" schtick when he's knowingly posting incorrect information should have been your first clue.

[Irreverent Maximus]

That was my summation. and moved on. Either that or he is an incompetent idiot.

[gregz]

Funny on store bought cords and equipment, the plugs fail either due to bad crimps, or the little wires breaking off a bit at a time. It usually starts to get hot right at the end of the molded connector. The more the cord is moved around, the worse it gets over time.

Greg