American toilet design?

[Rod Speed]

Then you need to get out more, as always.

That's because you have only ever used one after one of your shitty relos.

And sheep, and plenty of others.

Wrong, as always.

[rbowman]

The people prone to RWD fuckups died young. Ever try to correct a FWD car when the rear end breaks loose?

[rbowman]

You say that like it was a good thing.

[Commander Kinsey]

It keeps us sane.

[Commander Kinsey]

That would actually be in more. Hospitals aren't outside unless you live in Africa.

Or myself. Shit from any human, cat, dog, etc stinks. Bird shit doesn't smell at all, and cow shit isn't that bad. Must be different digestive systems. It suggests to me the stinky ones have left a lot of the nutritional value in it. Dung beetles agree.

Did you want me to go through the entire animal kingdom?

You eat meat, yours will be even worse.

[Commander Kinsey]

The laws of physics change whenever we realised we got them wrong or missed a bit. Hence we're not just using Newtonian mechanics any more.

It's provable by a Google search.

[Commander Kinsey]

They don't tend to do that. RWD cars are tailhappy.

And yes I have, but only because all four tyres were bald. I went sideways round a roundabout in the rain, which scared the shit out of everyone else using it. It did clear it pretty quick though.

[Rod Speed]

Nope. You need to get out of your hovel and into the real world more.

True, and you are even shittier.

Wrong, as always. Most obviously with dried dog shit.

And rabbit, sheep and plenty of other shit doesn't stink either.

It is in fact much more complicated than that.

In fact if you feed your dog the cheapest dry dog feed that has lots of cereal in it that the dog doesn't digest, that shit stinks less than if you freed the dog just raw meat that mostly get completely digested.

So there goes another silly theory blowing up in your face and covering you with shit.

That about your level.

Nope, you made enough of a fool of yourself already.

Wrong, as always.

[Jim Joyce]

I'm not a professional and I can generally correct skids regardless of whether the vehicle is FWD or RWD. My Dad taught me to drive when I was six. Between the ages of about 10-12, I used to sneak one of the family cars as often as I could during the winter months so that I could practice skidding around corners, driving on the frozen river, or driving on the frozen lake. Then from 12 to 18, I took the car with permission to do those things. As an adult, I continue to play in the snow and ice because I enjoy tossing a vehicle around and recovering safely. Where I grew up, in rural South Dakota, I was typical of the boys, slightly less so for the girls.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Total crap.

I had my first acciudent in a FWD car. Took my foot off in a corner and the rear stepped out. Wasnt professional enough to put my foot back down, so engaged in some tank slapping and then a bank slapping Fortunately my sister had smashed that side of the car some weeks earlier so me mum never noticed the extra damage.

These days RWD has traction control that limits big welly induced rear wheel slides.

Which is a shame sometimes

It is basically a question of practice. In the end I could drive both sorts on the limit. and finding the limit was one of the first jobs in a new car.

These days the limits are rather higher than I care to drive mostly. Leastwise on the sorts of cars I drive.

A tribute to modern car design.

[rbowman]

My current Toyota has a stability control system that can't be turned off. A couple of times when I wanted to play I wound up dead in the water with the car saying 'We can proceed when you can drive like an adult.' We even had SCCA sponsored races on ice, and in the summer there were miles of dirt road to get loose on.

The last time I lost it was in an old Geo with marginal tires when I hit ice on the Continental Divide. With a wheelbase of about 5' it did a 180 very fast. That wasn't the worse thing in the world though. While the back end was buried in a snow drift its front paws were still on dry pavement and I drove away.

[rbowman]

My first FWD car was an Audi. I didn't wreck but the first drives down twisty roads were a learning experience.

Yeah, it's FWD but between the traction control and stability control in my Toyota it's difficult to have any fun. It's interesting taking off on icy surfaces with the traction control dealing with the torque steer and slick spots. It's like riding a dirt bike. Don't obsess with the little weaves as long as you're going in a more or less straight line.

[Commander Kinsey]

Strange. In my experience, a FWD car begins to slide, and you simply do less of what you're already doing, and the problem is stopped before it gets serious. As in brake less or accelerate less. Same as if you're running or walking on ice and snow, you just be more gentle. But a RWD car requires great skill to control once it very quickly gets out of hand, you actually have to do more of what you did wrong to bring it back into line! I've felt almost all of my FWD cars lose control on a few occasions, and I simply backed off what I was doing, and it calmed down. But two RWD cars I had, first thing I knew I was facing the other way, no time to think!

That's the problem, RWD requires power to control it. FWD requires being calm. A non-pro prefers less welly.

You can normally disable it to have fun, you may need to Google it and reprogram the ECU. Put it in test mode or something :-)

Or you're becoming an OAP. If you're not using your car near the limit, you don't need a car that fancy.

[tony sayer]

Now thats the sort of really useful practice and experience that Learners just don't get these days!...

[Commander Kinsey]

I like to play around on tarmac, I can do a perfect J turn for example.

But snow, f*ck that. Gimme a FWD automatic any day, it sorts it for you. In fact I got my FWD auto Golf up a snowy hill that someone else failed to get their 4WD up. In the end they followed the tracks I'd made.

[Commander Kinsey]

They have great skill. I prefer the car to do the work.

RWD is for professionals. FWD is for people who just want an easy drive.

Golfs are particularly good at hills for some reason. Mind you, I've only owned three autos so I don't know how much that has to do with it. The others were a 4wd Range Rover, and a 4wd Honda CRV. But what the Golf was good at was, if there was f*ck all traction, you could slam your foot on the floor and it would go through the gears itself, getting the wheels up to 120mph and dig a trench through the snow so you could grip the tarmac. Not so easy with a manual. Or if you wanted to be more gentle, it would prevent you accidentally wheelspinning by adjusting the gears, so you never lost traction and went into the coefficient of dynamic friction, then all is lost.

[Commander Kinsey]

My friend lived on a farm. He took one driving lesson and the instructor said "this really isn't necessary, just go take your test". He did and passed.

[rbowman]

I will admit my FWD Toyota does well in snow if it isn't too deep. I've had RWD cars that were good too, surprisingly a '62 Falcon Futura. It had Jeep DNA in it somehow. otoh, my '73 Mustang was absolute shit. It wasn't that stellar on dry pavement either.

[rbowman]

That's the downside of traction control. When it works, great. If both wheels spin it shuts you down completely. Being an AT it's a pain in the ass to rock it.

[rbowman]

I was too young in high school to take Driver Ed, so my father undertook my training. By the time he thought I was ready, I'd driven in all seasons, made a cross country trip (that would be close to 5000 miles, not your little Brit cross country), and passed my traffic section on a trip to New York City.

It was a standard transmission, of course, and a requirement was getting off the line and shifting without tipping over the Genesee long neck sitting on the passenger side floor.