40:1 or 50:1 two-stroke tools (what to do if you have both)?



I'd go with 40:1 and risk a fouled plug in the 50 engine. If that happens, you can always go lighter, but once the engine is seized, changing the mix won't help.
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replying to Ed Pawlowski, Bubba wrote: Fouled plug is the least of your worries...carbon build up in the chamber, rings, and exhaust port....when that carbon breaks loose, it devistates the cylinder and piston...you're givem incorrect advice. Smh
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I am not an expert but I always considered it important enough to mark separate cans for my chain saw and weed eater which use different mixes. I generally use Stihl oil in both.
RonB
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 18:51:57 -0700 (PDT), RonB wrote:

In doing research on the oil & ratio, I find the following tidbits of interest: - Two-stroke oil reduces the octane rating by about 2 points. - Two-stroke oil raises the octane rating (by an unspecified amount). - All Echo 2-stroke equipment requires 89 octane gasoline with ISO-L-EGD & JASO M345 FC/FD two-stroke oil - Using more two-stroke oil (i.e., 40:1 vs 50:1) will not help your engine. - Do not use synthetic two-stroke oil.
- Two-stroke oil reduces the octane rating by about 2 points. "First, when fuel is premixed with 2-stroke oil, the octane rating is reduced by about 2 points. An 87 octane fuel would therefore become 85 octane. Second, fuel evaporates and loses its octane rating when it lays in your aircraft's fuel tank or in a plastic jug. A "premium", 91 octane fuel will see its octane rating reduced to unusable levels after as little as three weeks. Fuel with a lower octane rating would obviously have an even shorter usable life. REFERENCE: http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm
- Two-stroke oil raises the octane rating (by an unspecified amount). "adding oil to the gasoline will raise the octane. The amount that it will raise the octane though would be very little. The reason for this is twofold. First, with a fuel-oil ratio on the order of 25:1 - 50:1, there is actually very little oil added to the gasoline. Second, when the oil/gas mixture enters the cylinder, the oil will "drop out" while the gasoline will remain a vapor. this is due the oil's lower vaporization rate. If the oil didn't do this, there would be no lubricating effect and the engine would quickly seize." REFERENCE: http://www.wmi.org/bassfish/bassboard/boats_motors/message.html?message_id 4343
- Using more two-stroke oil (i.e., 40:1 vs 50:1) will not help your engine. "The ratio is 50 to 1, or 2%. This means you would mix 400mL of oil in 20L of fuel, 500mL for 25L, and so on. Using more oil than recommended would not help your engine in any way: it will accelerate the formation of carbon deposits which will eventually break loose and accelerate wear." REFERENCE: http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm
- All Echo 2-stroke equipment requires 89 octane gasoline with ISO-L-EGD & JASO M345 FC/FD two-stroke oil "ISO-L-EGD and JASO M345 FC/FD oil must be used with a mid-grade (89 octane) or premium gasoline in all 1997 and newer engines." REFERENCE: http://hubersgarage.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/ECHO_FUEL.10073242.doc
- Do not use synthetic two-stroke oil. "Synthetic oil should only be used by those who operate their engine nearly every day. Even when shut down, air is constantly circulating through a 2-stroke engine; it is never sealed like a 4-stroke engine. Even though it has excellent lubricating properties, a synthetic oil does not effectively protect a stopped 2-stroke engine against corrosion: it tends to attract moisture and will run off the parts rather than leave a protective coating." REFERENCE: http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm
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The ratio depends more on the oil than it does the equipment. I run everything I have on marine 2 stroke oil at 50:1. We have a jetski so we buy oil by the gallon. I've been doing it fo years and haven't had a problem. My chainsaw is 30 years old. I've got a lawnboy that is 20 years old.
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On 6/17/2011 6:51 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

I also ran about 50 gallons a week of 50:1 mix gas through about 30 pieces of equipment, for almost 2 years. (That's a lot of gas and oil) Using only quicksilver oil mix. THEN the stihl guy caught wind of it and advised us that any lubrication based warranty claims we might have could be denied, so i switched to the stihl oil.
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Steve Barker
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Th stihl guy is lying to you. There are consumer protection laws that prevent any manufacturer from voiding a warranty claim as long as you have used oil that meets or exceeds the equipment requirement. No matter who made the oil. You can use the walmart oil and they can't do a thing about it.
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On 6/17/2011 11:40 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

That's true, but the merc quicksilver oil is certified for water cooled. I doubt it meets the requirements for the air cooled spec.
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Steve Barker wrote:

Look at the Quicksilver PWC oil. It is certified for air-cooled and not water cooled. It's expensive; I think it's about $9 a quart at Walmart. I haven't bought it because I'm still working on a bottle of Castrol 2-cycle oil.
-Bob
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replying to zxcvbob, Bubba wrote: Best mix is red armor....nothing Walmart sells for mix is worth a darn...the ash content is too high.
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:40:38 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

True - as long as it meets or excedes the published spec. If it does not, and they can prove it - you have no warranty.
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replying to jamesgangnc, Bubba wrote: Correct..but it has to meet or exeed the jaso rating.
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replying to Steve Barker, Bubba wrote: He lied to you then. Im gold certified...he cannot tell you that BY LAW. If the mix , meets, or exceeds the required jaso rating...they have to honor it. Federal law says so.
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 04:51:18 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

But using oil for a water cooled 2 stroke in a highly stressed air cooled engine is NOT recommended (generally) and MAY require a different mixture. Some, but not all "outboard motor oil" is suitable and meets the JASO M345 FD spec. If it only meets tc/w3 it is not recommended for, for instance, chain saw use. JASO M345 Fd severely limits engine deposits and reduces smoke, as well as requiring minimum lubricity levels etc.
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replying to jamesgangnc, Bubba wrote: You most definitely havent been using 50:1 marine mix in your chainsaw....older chainsaws require more oil mix, and not marine mix.
My 35 years as strictly a two cycle tech, calls you on your bs.
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replying to jamesgangnc, Cory wrote: I know this post about 5 years old BUT.. this is the best reply on this page that i have read... A very common misconception is this... engines do not have a ratio. It's the oil that has a ratio.
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On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 10:14:05 AM UTC-4, Cory wrote:

How can a single item "have" a ratio?
A ratio is a comparison of two or more objects. None of the individual items "has" a ratio.
A ratio can be used to describe the relationship *between* the items.
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wrote:

4 out of 5 of those references are accurate. The one that is not is the one from Bubba the BassFisher.
As far as the one about not using more than recommended, it is only accurate if using the correct oil. If NOT using the correct oil, more oil may provide close to the same protection as using the right amount of the right oil. - but it IS true.
As for not using synthetic 2 stroke oil, it is also accurate - particularly with a simple port timed 2 stroke. A rotary valve or Rave valve 2 stroke is more of a sealed system when shut down, suffering less from moisture and corrosion issues - the ideal may be to use a semi synthetic - just enough "real" oil to provide some anti-corrosion protection, while most of the lubrication is provided by the "smokeless" synthetic.
On a $99 weedeater I wouldnt worry too much about it, but on an $8000 Rotax aircraft engine Iwould pay heed to their warnings.
The problem with Bubba the Bassfisher's assertion that oil increases the octane rating is that it is just plane WRONG (hey, don't take my word for it - Echo, and Rotax - MAJOR manufacturers of 2 stroke engines agree)
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replying to SF Man, Bubba wrote: Thank you for posting. It drives us techs crazy when people use the advice of people who don't research. Its refreshing.
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It's not just plug fouling - it is also carbon build-up. In Burkina Faso (and many other African countries) they run the oil mix extra strong on their mopeds to keep them from seizing up in the heat - wevery month or so it's pop off the cyl head and scrape the carbon off the head, piston, and ports with a wooden stick..
Smoke like a fiend!!!
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