any hydro peeps here?

[Steve]

Well, that's just the point. Stifling opposing views is hardly the way to gain share.

[gunner]

yet ....STILL WITHOUT FACTS, just like the Ironite rants were. So far your posse has much the same MO also.

BTW You sure use a lot of aliases and give a lot of talk about handlers and propaganda, you learning all that from that little red book?

[Billy]

Great, would you like to tell us about "Ironite"? We can deal with politics later. For the time being, let's not go all over the lot, and just stick to gardening. Think you can do that, hmmm?

[Charlie]

Indeed I must, and thank you for the admonishment. Puts me in mind of a quote or three, but one, or two, will suffice.......

?As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly?

Charlie

cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.

"Anyone can err, but only the fool persists in his fault" ~~ Marcus Tullius Cicero

[Charlie]

message is being so well received that *they* are bringing out the hired guns.

Kinda sorta like we suspicion is happening here, a trend that I suspect is is happening across many internet forums. I look to see internet access severely curtailed in the not too distant future.

Free speech, dissent and *anti-establishment* rhetoric are being tolerated to a much smaller degree than one would like to imagine is possible in a supposedly free society.

On a positive note, my wife was at the bigbox and found plastic storage containers that were labeled BPA free. Likewise, we are seeing products labeled "contains no HFCS".

Charlie

[Steve]

I don't remember, and this includes the Viet Nam era, such hostility, vitriol, and hatred for dissent. We were at a party the other night and I was called unAmerican by a woman because I said that "perhaps "to provide for the common good" includes health care". I'm going to have to reread Madison, apparently I've forgotten what being a Real American means...

Ain't that great?

[gunner]

You have this habit of constantly reinterpreting facts when your "research" gets exposed, billy. That seem to happen a lot!

Think you can work on keeping your stories factual? hmmmm?

[gunner]

Hopefully billy will take these to heart.

[Billy]

Since you seem to be familiar with the Google Archives, and disagree with my characterization of Ironite, could you try to be specific in your criticism? If you just indulge yourself in character assassination without facts, you are just the sound of a barking dog. Go get 'em Fido.

[Billy]

Just gardening, gunny, just gardening, if you please. Now, please tell us about "Ironite" ;O)

[Steve]

But stay off the lawn.

[gunner]

You are a slow learner. Kinda like your fellow birthers.

I have no need to search the archives for that little Ironite faux pas of yours, billy but perhaps you should to refresh your memory. There in its that critical thinking part I keep insisting on when you start flapping that big mouth of yours, fluffy. You were talking about product ingredients that hadn't been in the product for years and insistence on lawsuits that never happen, denigrating the user to hell, all because of your misinformation and prejudicial ideas. Never checking your facts.

Your profile shows a distinct pattern...faulty analogy, then fringe talk, false allegations, followed by ad hominem attacks, waffling, then more weasel words.... that is all ya got, fluffy and it doesn't work well for ya!

Just another in your long line of tainted "facts" and distorted truths you keep trying to get out there. If you have no fact, dazzle em with BS and persistence, huh billy!

[Charlie]

Or you?

Condemnant quod non intellegunt.

Charlie

[Charlie]

Cave canem! ;-)

Charlie

"If you stop every time a dog barks, your road will never end." - Saudi Arabian Proverb

[gunner]

Old and irrelevant news there slick. "Ironite®, ONCE available at many lawn and garden stores, WAS a common fertilizer made from mine tailings".

Like little billy, you don't read your source material thoroughly either? Fairly common practice for those looking to shore up their argument with pseudo research. Little billy made.makes the same mistake as you just did except he denigrated folks for his faulty research. He seems to keep using his "facts" out of context a lot and it seems his tribe seem to follow closely. Try researching posting here from ~09-05-2008 on the Great billy Ironite rant. It is a pattern with the man.

The Iron King mine was placed on the Superfund list in 2005. The lawsuit that billy and others erroneously referenced was dismissed by a SF Judge, the Eco Lawyers got 150K money for their troubles and the company agreed to put "do not eat on the bag". The company was sold to Scotts early in 2006, and doesn't use the Iron King Mine tailings, good thing since they can't huh? In fact Today Ironite uses Jersey Greensand in one of its formula. These facts keep getting overlooked by you latrine lawyers in your zeal to pounce on anything you feel is counterindicated by your zealotry . WA State DOE as well as a few other States check fertilizer contents and have for a while.

Read your references thoroughly to keep your facts right Steve.

[gunner]

Perhaps Charlie, perhaps, Yet I understand all too well, do you?

[gunner]

Is this all from the new version of your little red book, charlie?

[Steve]

Let's just skip the diminutive name calling, OK? This is an exchange of ideas, not a school yard. Act your age, please.

Trace elements in soils and sediments have, for many years, been receiving attention of investigators in plant and animal nutrition. But, with increasing concerns for environmental quality, there is also now major attention given to trace elements from the standpoint of toxicity as well as deficiency. The former is especially true with the greensand deposits in New Jersey. Dooley (1998) made analyses of New Jersey greensands and, of 7 sites, he reported 7 to 31 ppm arsenic, 5 to 18 ppm beryllium, Read your references thoroughly to keep your facts right Steve.

I'm doing my best.

[Billy]

I'm sure that is all very interesting, and I asked you not to wander off the subject. Musing on my psychological, or my political profile, has nothing to do with the question. You didn't like my characterization of Ironite, so please correct me.

What is Ironite? What was Ironite?

If you can't even answer a simple question, you're wasting my time.

Com'on, speak, boy, speak.

[Billy]

Yes, and we've been through all this.

November 22, 1999

Ariz., Nov. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- A recent report by two environmental advocacy groups and misunderstandings about basic mineralogy are being used to create scare tactics over fertilizer. Ironite Products Company, producer of Ironite, a natural soil supplement and fertilizer not manufactured from any toxic waste product but rather from naturally occurring rock containing minerals, has commissioned several scientific studies to evaluate potential health risks associated with its product. The conclusion of all studies: Ironite is not toxic to humans, pets or . . .

Uh-huh. They say it is safe.

Law Foundation v. Ironite Products Co. Obtained a consent judgment banning the continued sale in California of a fertilizer manufactured from hazardous waste that contained excessive levels of arsenic and lead.

2006 vs. IRONITE PRODUCTS COMPANY (fertilizer) California law regulates the levels of heavy metals (such as lead and cadmium) allowed in fertilizers, and requires high levels be disclosed on the packages. The Ironite Company could not meet California's standards, because its fertilizer was being manufactured from mine tailings at a potential Superfund site. Nonetheless, it steadfastly refused to disclose the high levels of toxic metals on labels its packages to warn customers, as the law required. ELF brought Ironite to court, and Ironite -- after initially filing frivolous claims that its "free speech rights" were violated if it had to warn about toxic metals

-- agreed to reformulate its products to get rid of the heavy metals altogether, and to contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars to the effort to clean up California's waters.

About Ironite ? The Environmental Law Foundation lawsuit alleges that the lead and arsenic contents in Ironite exceed the maximum concentration limits (i.e., ³non-nutritive standards²) set by the California Department of Food and Agriculture (CDFA), 3 C.C.R. § 2302(a).

Ironite¹s Contents of Heavy Metals Compared to CDFA Limits HeavyMetals CompanyData(parts per million) CDFA Limit(ppm) Exceeds Arsenic 4380 ppm 189.65 ppm Yes, 23 times Lead 2910 ppm 1927 ppm Yes, 1.5 times

------- As you say, gunny, there was no determination in the case, because it was settled out of court, but as you can see above, it wasn't a matter of the company agreeing to put "do not eat on the bag". Makes for good fiction, though.

So, you're contending that nothing should have been said about Ironite? I missed it's sale and reformulation by 2 years, but once informed, I ceased my complaints about the product. If that is a rant, so be it.

How does one come to sell toxic waste as fertilizer?

------ If we had less regulation, there would be fewer of these frivolous lawsuits - say the Washington lobbyists.

------

2006 years ago, we started conducting plant studies to determine why Ironite was causing truly amazing root growth and healthy, green lawns said Heinz Brungs, Ironite president and chief executive officer. Today, I am pleased to report the scope of rigorous testing this product has undergone to prove it is safe to use and safe to the environment.