These two have crossed galaxies to continue the war. See "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" Star Trek season III episode #70
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Two sides of the same coin, tossed together to argue minutiae across the sands of time. Their hate evolved faster than reason, one from the tribe of Organites and the other from the tribe of Chemferts. Why they fight has long been lost to each and now all they have left is the hate. Tossing aside all those who make attempts at reason as if they were a common foe, interlopers beware.
Nothing son, not a damn thing and unless you are a MM patient in one of the
14 states allowing MM and EATING it, your post doesn't have a damn thing to do with Rec.Gardens.Edible either. Nor does your inclusion of this thread in alt.quit.smoking.support. So while it may not be PC to stereotype folks, son, is it sooooo apropos here or, as my close-minded nemesis says, "your a wanker". Which is it? Just don't pretend like your some injured party, Ok?
You have posed this subject here twice now AND you have been told at least once where you might get your questions answered. Don't care the reason why your so tenacious, I am not going to entertain your vague questions on potentially illegal topics based on abbreviated BS. Usually your type question is couched under the pretense of " I want to grow """tomatoes"" hydroponically" or at the very least, pretend like you are a MM patient. Personally, I don't believe you cannot find information leads on your subjects, nor that you don't have at least some capacity to separate most fact from fiction.
Read experts in the field such as Dr. Howard M. Resh's book on Hydroponic Food Production, there are plenty of others such as Dr. Lynnette Morgan.... find old copies of Growers Edge Mag or the new one Urban Garden (which seems to vaguely target your interest group). Then, after you READ up on the subject and you still have specific questions on the subject of Hydroponics.... I will try to answer those questions. BTW read it sober ok? If you don't like reading, well..... just type in 420 and trust in the Internet, but you knew that right?
As a side note: you might like to know this: Hot off the wire this AM:
So eloquently philosophical, yet so pretentious and distorted. You act like a little Philistine from the Organites camp. You have never stood up to counter any thing in that camp so far, have ya? So your attempt to wax philosophical with empty fluffy words from someone in the back of the crowd that never stood up on an issue is certainly suspect. It does sounds very Solomanistic, though!
If you have viable comments on anything I've said to date, spit them out. As for of billy's disjointed claims or if you actually cared to support billy's claim by refuting the FSA study, I would like to hear them too. Better late than never. Don"t like those?..., pick one of his other BS statements to address, be you pro or con.
Seems you been waiting a while to say something seeming so profound there Wilson? I recall the last attempt was your argument on "citation" wasn't it? Again stemming from a billy rant. Funny, you didn't weigh-in on any "billyfacts" in his using PAN to allude the sky is falling all the while using the FED's pesticide database which said quite the contrary....some BS about "lemmings and status quo" & eating pesticides. Oh and that the definitions in your on-line dictionary are better than my desk dictionary. So, any allusion to some grand neutrality and arguing what is minutiae is a bit subjective for you, isn't it?
As for "the tribe of Chemferts", Wilson? No, do not play this little triviality trick and attempt to brand me with your BS wording to justify your cute little diatribe or dismiss this as an "either/or". To say chemical salts kill soil, earthworms or soil organisms is to deny the fact plants use these very chemical salts for their nutrients. I can go line by line with many of the other organic "opinions" your camp has proffered here but your organo statements are largely opinions, maybe good, but mostly without fact. I will challenge lies, half-truths and dogma. But what have you done? Not much as I can see but these little pearls great wisdom.
You just snipe safely from the back of the crowd, pulling a Glen Beck. Make the issues some kinda of simple "either/ or" in some lame attempt to give cover for action and further your organic dogma.
Now I am guilty of "wrestling the pig" and certainly of jousting with windmills in fighting self-righteousness. But I will be the first to say that, but someone, sometime or other, has to speak out on stupidity and lies.
"It is the worst form of arrogance to believe yourself to be so right that you are justified in lying to others in order to get them to share your belief."
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It is the same pattern everytime w/ billy, some wild ass allegation, then some superficial cherry picked statement from some industry insider group all the while attempting to discredit fact as biased, then when he can't even dispute the factual statements from his own "citations". Lil billy attempts bullying and certain of this group such as you, condones it. How pathetic that is, but much worse is the duplicity exhibited by your lack of action and pretentious scolding me after the fact.
To challenge such stupidity does not make one from the "tribe of chemferts", but in my book you sure speak volumes for those that timidly condone such affronts on intelligence with their silence. Still, its not an "either/or" issue Wilson, as much as you want to trivialize it.
Beside if you don't like reading this and for what ever reason you couldn't weigh in on any salient points, why did you continue to read it ? Are you somehow indignant that someone took away your freewill & made you read all this?
After all it is your dogma and one has the right to believe what ever, just not the right to tell lies about it.
To afford you the respect that you didn't give me, I leave your eloquence un-snipped. I find snipping is a selfish thing, one something does to others, but never to self. I have actually followed some of your links and thoroughly enjoyed the hydro tour of the lettuce operation on YouTube. That said, I'll leave it up to your readers to decide whether you are Bele or Lokai, as my point was made. You don't know where I stand, but you assume. I don't bore easily nor quickly, but the 'Billy / Gunner / Billy / Gunner' ad nauseum does bring me to tears as in 'bored to.'
Continue, glad you enjoyed this little diversion - I can tell. You may have sniffed out my affection for organics, it is a self-sustaining system unlike the cycle of the man-sustained chemically-fortified agronomy you defend. You can hardly do harm with organics. If you approach it like a cookbook, you can still grow good vegetables, but if instead, like a good chef, you take the time to learn the interplay of the ingredients with time, heat & spice, great things are achieved. No urea, no herbicide, no pesticide. Just an incredibly healthy soil environment which overgrows the pests encountered, the weeds that try to invade, and leaves just a bit of the mystery to life and its processes.
No, rather take up the sword and swing it about touting how safe it all is, to discard all ontological considerations claiming profoundly that Man can conquer it all. And we can, almost! So praise the 14 bottom plow and the square miles put under it, the mono-culture that supports nothing but itself, the reliance on 'Roundup resistant' GM plants while sitting back and claiming that no ill comes from this mentality.
Who do you shill for Gunner? Rhetorical question of course, because your arguments fall on deaf ears. And I know you'll blast me for this one, but I don't need to read the studies or the reports to know the agenda they serve. You dismiss and I dismiss. We are both dismissed. Class adjourned.
" This is the best rebuttal and reply I have had the pleasure to read in a long time." "Thank you, Wilson."
Glaring in its absence....STILL nothing of substance given to support your shaman.
BTW Charlie, yes your rec.gardens.organic newsgroup is "Deader than a Hammer......SAD" as you so note. As to why? Personally I think it is the requisite sermons and proselytizing your tribe tends to do. Maybe the decline is because of the "teabags" the tribe is leaving to mark the trail back to camp, or perhaps its the "little red book" the tribe passes out at the advocacy group meetings? This outlines your only M.O. so far.
Regardless of why Charlie, all your Shaman has got is lots of Faulty Analogy, then fringe talk, followed by Ad Hominem attacks. All the while, the lynch mob hangs back, hoping to snipe one in there when no one is looking as demonstrated here
As for this great pearl of wisdom you posted in your organic newsgroup:
...", but for those who are new, or want to learn something new, aren't we beholden to correct ignorance and false information when we encounter it, re: sheldon, re: things garden re:monsanto worshippers (credit to phorbin)...different perspectives are what we offer. Charlie"
A perspective is much different than fact and yes, we are beholden. "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity._ MLK Jr.
I still hold hope for your shaman. The lynch mob? not so much nowadays.
I've got to go pull a bunch of Daikons that just love fall growing. First sample was 18" long by 5" max diameter. Has anybody shredded and fermented them a la kraut? And after a dismal summer, the fall greens are going great guns.
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
Many thanks for this; I'll start a pilot run tonight. The rest of the stuff is interesting, since we went to a series of sessions taught by esoteric Gnostic types. Interesting stuff, but I'll stick to Paganism for now. Our Gods are more fun!
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
I am amused that you search my postings to use as fuel for your "sophomoric" "rebuttals". Am I that dangerous that you and your handlers feel I, and those you proclaim "shaman", must be silenced? What is your agenda, g-man? For whom do you shill, eh? Still on the payroll?
To some, you may appear to be proficient at stringing together quotes and "research", and trying to associate and link things that you scarce understand........ but you may not be quite as good as you believe you are.....
How's this for ad hominem and to the point.....
Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.
I used some Daikon in my kimchi this summer. The recipe called for Korean Radishes, but I'm thinking they might be similar. Anyway, a fairly decent recipe and video found at
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I used anchovies instead of oysters and Pak Choi that I grew. Better than commercial kimchi that I've bought before. Good luck.
Everything is just fine here, Charlie. We've just been busy as heck, hence the two day delay in answering you.
I'm becoming convinced that the Industrial Food lobby is paying visits to this group...I'm not paranoid, just getting very suspicious. They are not big fans of the truth as illustrated by the nixing of the Michael Pollan speech at Cal Poly.
Well, I'm not buying anymore Harris Ranch beef. What a jerk David E Wood is. If he had half a brain, he would have asked the college to schedule Gary Tauber, author of Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health, to present a strong argument for more meat (not produced as it currently is) and less carbs.
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the students would have been exposed to 2 complimentary concepts of health. Babbit strickes again.
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