Nimrod was a mighty hunter, strong, swift, and wily, in Greek (I think it was Greek) mythology.
What I can't figure out is, How and when did the name come to be used to designate unthinking silly people?
I'm wondering whether it's being confused with Mork's "nimno". Or some mush bnetween that and 'nitwit' (a nit being the egg of a louse, i.e., a tiny thing that hatched into a brainless but annoying parasite).
Just wondering.
Cross-posted to alt.usage.english for some help. One hopes.
On 05 May 2005, Kris Krieger wrote (in alt.architecture)
I've only recently encountered "nimrod" as a term of abuse, and had precisely the same reaction.
I've done a google and a search in alt.usage.english, but as neither of these turned anything up, I'm cross-posting this in the hope that someone (hiya, Donna!) might help.
Cross-posted to alt.usage.english for some help. One hopes.
On 05 May 2005, Kris Krieger wrote (in alt.architecture)
I've only recently encountered "nimrod" as a term of abuse, and had precisely the same reaction.
I've done a google and a search in alt.usage.english, but as neither of these turned anything up, I'm cross-posting this in the hope that someone (hiya, Donna!) might help.
Harvey Van Sickle wrote in news:Xns964DDE33C3EBwhhvans@194.168.222.122:
Oh, I never came across that group - interesting :) [ self-snipage ]
Well, I'm relieved (nto kidding!) that I'm not the only one. I seem to have a vague recollection of some teen or pre-teen in some silly movie using the term like that, but it's not something that had enough significance at the time for me to remember accurately.
OTOH movies are the source of a LOT of misinformation...
- KMK
Cross-posted to alt.usage.english for some help. One hopes.
On 05 May 2005, Kris Krieger wrote (in alt.architecture)
I've only recently encountered "nimrod" as a term of abuse, and had precisely the same reaction.
I've done a google and a search in alt.usage.english, but as neither of these turned anything up, I'm cross-posting this in the hope that someone (hiya, Donna!) might help.
It just sounds bad to be called a nimrod. It's like Tookie, Charle Amirault was sent to prison in the Fells Acres child molestation case more on his nickname "Tookie" than on any evedidence the State had. Some names and words just sound bad.
"Nimrod" - my google search finds 225 "Results" in alt.usage.english, including Donna's Intro F of the FAQ.
Spread by Bugs Bunny cartoons, if not begun there.
Sorted by Date, that was only 30 Results; which became
40 when I looked at the second set of 20 (plus, 'some entries very similar to the 40' ...).
Agreed on the sound. Yahoo thinks it was Bugs who was the proximate cause of his downfall, and briefly discusses his biblical origins:
CDB, would you mind changing your settings? This causes a big HTML-code-visible section at the end, for some of us.
There's a short answer in the AUE FAQ:
Sorry to disagree, but I'm never convinced by arguments appealing to sound. The associations are much more likely to go the other direction. Too many people will rave about what a beautiful word "melody" is, for example, but "malady"? Hah.
In this case, "ramrod" occurs to me as a likely comparison. Does calling a man a "ramrod" sound like calling him a fool?
No. Being used sarcastically and cuttingly and insultingly is what makes "nimrod" sound bad.
To see ironic uses even earlier than Bugs Bunny, see Ben Zimmer's post:
Bugs Bunny applied the term to that mighty hunter Elmer Fudd.
Knowedge and expewience, no?
-- john
"Donna Richoux"
I wonder why.
Hardly... ...I am ok with being called Dick, and, if one's mood turns crotchety, even 'a dick'.
Speaking of 'bad', when I am in a silly mood, I sometimes like to replace 'good' with 'buttery'.
...I am hoping that one day, 'buttery' for 'good' becomes the next oral catch.
Harvey Van Sickle spake thusly:
I have never heard Nimrod used other than as a reference to the proper name.
It should be noted by non-UK folk that in the UK there are two common uses, related to this proper name. It is the name of the main movement of that most English of 20th Century classical music - Elgar's "Enigma Variations". The "Nimrod" movement depicts a close fried of Elgar's called Jaeger (there's a classical/multlingual joke here).
And it's the name of an RAF marine search and rescue aircraft (geddit?) based on the Comet. Being an island nation, we have frequent need for search and rescue at sea - the Nimrod is familiar to all because of its bulbous nose which houses the radar.
ObAUE -- Technically the "Enigma Variations" are not structured in movements. "Nimrod" is a variation. Purely as a matter of opinion, I'd rate Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance No. 1" as a dram or two more English even than "Enigma" -- which is, nevertheless, a magnificent composition.
Has anyone -- God forbid -- written words to the "Nimrod" melody, as has been done to P&C No. 1?
As for the pejorative meaning of "Nimrod," found in the US, I've often wondered if the vague similarity to the likes of "n*****ts" had anything to do with the drift in meaning. (In case anyone was wondering what I often wonder about.)
[ ... ]
I was playing a piano transcription of "Nimrod" last night - wonderful stuff, but so many chords! P&C1 may be more English to you (I can't abide it personally), but for pastoral England you can't do much better than "Nimrod", unless you've got Vaughan Williams' "The Lark Ascending" to hand.
Will.
I've wondered the very same.
I've never wondered that.
The web seems to credit it to Bugs Bunny.
Because I'm talking about similarity of sound, of course. You don't notice the similarity in sound between ramrod and nimrod?
If you could suggest another six-letter word ending in "-mrod," I'm sure it would do just as well.
Exactly my point. We attaach different meanings and connotations, not due to the pure sound, but because of the history of use. "Ramrod" has a whole different set of associations.
"Nimrod" has become an insult, but not because "n-i-m-r-o-d" inherently makes an insulting noise, but because people use that noise insultingly. I'm quite sure it began as sarcasm along the lines of "Nimrod was a mighty hunter, but you're not," much the same way people might jeeringly call one another "Samson" or "Solomon" or "Superman."
By the way, "Nimrod" was apparently a brand name for a line of camping tent-trailers in the middle of the 20th century. That's what my husband associates with the word.
I have heard that using HTML causes a problem, but don't know of any other way to attach a link to the message. If anyone can tell me how, I'll be delighted to do it right. I have Outlook Express.
"Maladie d'amour, maladie des amoureux...", c'est pas-mal beau.
Certainly, it's a very subjective thing, and maybe also subtler than just comparing mrods. /&m/ doesn't produce the same impression at all as /Im/, IMO. As well, it may be not so much the intrinsic effect of those sounds as the degree to which they lend themselves to vigorous utterance. You couldn't give much such oomph to, say, "Sis", though you could hiss it effectively. As Judge Lieblich has suggested downthread, association with other words, like "n*****ts", may also provide a lot of the perceived sound-effect. Here if ever a general survey might be useful, but I don't know how one would google it. CDB
As Nimrod invented the skyscraper, are you saying architectects who follow suit are unthinking silly people?
We liked this tidbit though.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.