Wood router duty cycle?

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I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail on my CNC mill.
Kind of like this:
http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay, as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs quickly.
But still, the duty cycle question is important.
So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could they take before they overheat?
i
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I know that the head on one of my vendors' CNC router - by itself - cost over $700.00. It is rated for 5000 hrs continuous duty at 45KRPM before requiring a bearing overhaul -- which is a factory-only job.
They claim it's good for five re-builds, minimum, if the chuck is never crashed into the work.
This "head" isn't a router in the conventional sense. It's just a motor with mount pads and a collet-style chuck on a fairly short shaft. Nothin' much to look at. But it's virtually silent running at 40K under no load. It runs on a dedicated speed controller, and is purportedly a multi-phase motor. The controller was extra $$, and misbehaved badly for speed regulation and control until swapped out twice by the factory rep.
Don't remember the brand, but it's the one the ShopSabre folks recommend for the machine.
LLoyd
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On Aug 19, 8:32 am, Ignoramus12820 <ignoramus12...@NOSPAM. 12820.invalid> wrote:

I would guess that 4 minutes on and 6 minutes off would be no problem. Not familar with the Bosch but I think all routers have a cooling fan.
Dan
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Should only cost you about $100 to find out, buy one and see how it holds up.
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Probably ok for continuous shallow duty. Notwithstanding, for 100 bucks how can you go wrong? You have 10x that in the holder/bracket and that great camera. Don't sweat it; if it blows up get a PC 690, known to run forever at medium duty levels. ********************************************************************************************************** http://patwarner.com/ Router Woodworking *******************************************************************
On Aug 19, 5:32 am, Ignoramus12820 <ignoramus12...@NOSPAM. 12820.invalid> wrote:

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Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and belts to triple the spindle speed.
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I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a speeder would be nice.
i
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Ignoramus12820 wrote:

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Speed_Increaser.html . I Don't know what it would cost to ship to the US or if any US firms stock it already.
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I see the router setup to be a better way to go. The referenced speeder is rated for only 9000 rpm output. Most newer CNC mills will do 10000 stock. Another is that is a kit.
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Seems like some kind of a homemade contraption to me.
The router would go from 8,000 to 25,000 RPM.
i
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CW wrote:

was mentioned and IIRC Iggys mill has a 2.5krpm max spindle. It was put forward for consideration and any decision would then be at the discretion of the purchaser who has the choice of investigating the suitability of the kit further for themselves.
Personally I'd be tempted to try the router route as I already have a variable speed router which can also double as an electric die grinder. As the other router mentioned it has a cylindrical mounting boss simplifying the mounting aspect.
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    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

    That one looks *nice*! I would like to see the top end of the anti-rotation strap to see how it is locked to the quill to determine how much of Z-axis travel would be swallowed up.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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Iggy, This maybe a bit off-topic, but NMTB30 is very popular in Europe, as opposed to R8, which isn't. It appears that it is exactly opposite in the states. You may find tooling hard to find and expensive there. If shipping is an issue, contact me off-line perhaps I can help. Steve

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Steve, it is not that hard to find, but I could not find any decent affordable high speed spindle in NMTB30.
i

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On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:19:45 -0500, Ignoramus12820

Why don't you aks Steve to look for a spindle speeder? Very nice way to go.
Karl
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Here are some options:
http://www.tormach.com/Product_PCNC_acc_spindle.html
I've used the Proxxon die grinder and it worked pretty well for me in light use. The Kress router should be more robust. The Speeder may work for you as it is supposed to fit BP-type spindles, though you probably want more speed than it can give you.
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    [ ... ]

    I've got a speeder (belt driven only) which is straight shank. I got it from eBay some years ago. But I'm holding on to it for my Bridgeport.
    Just letting you know that they exist -- and once you know what you are looking for (mine is in a wooden box with a sliding top, FWIW) your scrounging skills should turn one up.
    The main thing when it is mounted is that you have to tell the CNC to not fully retract the spindle as it clamps to the OD of the quill.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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Somebody is talking out of somebody's rear orifice. While you're not generally going to find one at the business end of a $100,000-$300,000 commercial CNC machine, where a $5000 spindle motor is not a big expense, tens of thousands of $2,000-$15,000 homebuilt or kitbuilt CNC routers run them with no particular problems.

Other than being LOUD due to the universal motors, quality wood routers can be used rather extensively. If you can arrange to feed it clean air (possibly force-feeding it - ie, put a duct and blower on it), so much the better. If you actually service/replace the bearings per schedule (IIRC Porter-Cable specs 100 hours on the 690) better yet.
CNC wood router folks have used them for quite a while - the folks with money do like to step up to much more expensive and powerful (and quieter) spindle motors, but in bang/buck the router does fine. I've run mine for hours at a stretch, and so have a lot of other folks with CNC routers. Even if you simply run it til it dies and replace, the bang/buck is good, but servicing it properly the bang/buck should be better.
Unless you have a specific need for the small size, pick a normal router over a laminate trimmer/palm router/whatever.
A 690 mounts nicely to a chunk of channel with a big hose clamp, by the way. Just take the base off.
Crapsman, B&D need not apply...
Get good, comfortable hearing protection - you'll need it.
In (non-cnc) router table service, it's not uncommon to switch one on and run hundreds of feet of molding though a router, so running them for hours at a stretch is not some oddity that only CNC router folks do. The cooling air on a 690 makes one heck of a breeze...
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Yes. I was thinking about it as I was walking to work.
I realized that, say, 30,000 RPM is not that big of a deal for a small spindle on this Bosch Colt. It is not like it is a 2.5" Bridgeport spindle with huge bearings and huge linear speeds. The spindle bearings are probably 3/4" ID or there abouts.
The manual on it calls for a factory rebuild (read bearings replacement) every 300 to 400 hours.
If I can get 300, or even 200, hours out of it, this is all I really need. It is a lot of hours for a hobby use. Considering that a very fast head like this can complete projects very quickly due to high feedrates possible, 200 hours could complete a lot of projects. Similarly, because it works so fast, it would not need to stay running for very long, before it completes the assigned task.
I thought for a moment yesterday that I will use my big 2.5 HP router, but I am backing out of this, it is a little too big and there are complications with overhang, etc that would impact accuracy too much. Plus it is inconvenient to mount.
This Bosch Colt looks very appealing, because of ease of mounting, reasonable power, etc.
I think that I could use it with a 10A solid state relay, because, IIRC, it has a soft start.

Here it is 300 hours. Not really a problem.

Just what I hoped to hear.

What about something like this:
(Amazon.com product link shortened) />/
I think that it can be taken out of the base and then mounted in some kind of a round clamp. I have a CNC mill, so I can make an aluminum clamp that fits perfectly.

690 is something like this, right:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
That could also work. Any comparison with the Bosch one?

yep
Well, that is very nice to know right from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
thanks
i
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On 8/19/2010 7:20 AM, Ignoramus12820 wrote:
(...)

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Lots of customers have suffered.
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It happened to me.
Run Away!
--Winston
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