I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something more traditional, but they also use MDF for the sides by default now (though they're at least rabbetted before being stapled) unless you upgrade to plywood or wood...
Guess this means pocket screw jointery is now mainstream ;-)
ken
Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for faceplates? They seem to work well for me...
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Been used in industrial production for years untold...
faceplates?
Biscuits are faster and there isn't any "holes" to hurt the quality of your work.
They're not "faster" if you don't have a biscuit joiner...
pocket screws in production furniture is more than ok ....it is standard practise.......the best feature about pocket screws over biscuits, is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue drys...the screws act as the clamps until the glue sets....of cource everyone wants hand cut mortise-tenons and dovetails but most people are unwilling to pay the price Mike
Well, if you're installing pocket screws without clamping, you're going to have joints not line up.
Right; being able to move on after the screws are in, is nice. "Just a bit of glue until the screws dry" kind of thing.
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Home shop, yes...production setups do it all at once, maybe even whole frame semi- or even fully robotically....
Well, sure, but they have a jig (which is effectively a clamp, no?), and this is rec.woodworking, not pro.woodworking, so I didn't think that would apply in any case?
Well the thread started w/ a comment about a large manufacturer and apparent unawareness on part of OP that the technique has been around for a long time, so to me this seemed to be a "what the big boyz do"-related topic from the git-go...
Of course, since I'm temporarily laid up (w/ a broken arm and bruised ribs, needn't get into the "how" :) ), I'm sorta' looking for entertainment...but the 1-hand wrong-hand typing is a pita! :(
imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., ... :)
Dave Hinz wrote in news:3hb0b6Fg3jlsU1 @individual.net:
Nothing wrong w/ them at all. I thought they were mainly a quick alternative to using biscuits since some folks here despise them for "real" furniture because of the unsightly holes ;-)
I was just a bit surprised that Thomasville would use them, but expected them to be used by lower tier brands like Mill's Pride. Of course, I was also surprised Thomasville uses MDF back and side panels...
ken
The difference between the "one-off" or very small production runs in small single- or two-person shops and a large mass-market operation is night and day. An operation that can be automated and a glue-dry time eliminated is far more important in the production environment than hiding a construction detail 90% of potential buyers will never notice anyway...
Can't imagine why...as noted they're a large mass-merchandiser struggling to meet price points just like everybody else...their price-point may be somewhat above some, but most of their line at least is in a competitive market.
I think all that was said was misinterperted... 'is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue drys..." is simply that you don't have to clamp it down for the glue to set................. and honestly if you have a proper jig or work very accuratly you don't need to clamp anything with the pocket screws. I set up a jig on my drill press, run through 20 or so pieces align it and set the screws. Done!
So does Ethen Allen -- and they did back in the 60's when as a kid I did chores for my dad who owned a retail furniture store and sold Ethen Allen. Anyone out there own Drexel Heritage or Pennsilvania House? I bet they do too for some joints.
So?
Ken Yee wrote:
I would bet that most serious woodworkers build better products that the mainstram manufacturers do today. We are not in it for profit/loss but for the sheer pride and beauty of producing a product that the mass manufactureres would not even attempt in todays market. Hell, how can you compete with the Wal-Mart crap being sold.
This is one of the very reasons I ventured into woodworking, I was tired of the crap that I saw in so advertised respectable furniture stores and at cabinet makers.
JAW
Ken Yee woke up and had the following words of wisdom ....:
Don't be...they were using pocket holes long before Delta and Dewalt brought out the Handy/Andy pocket hole cutters. I have seen furniture pieces at least
40 years old with pocket holes in them.Ken Yee wrote:
Right, which is the same reason I built my own house. Took longer, saved money, and it's all done _right_.
Pocket hole screws were main stream in the 50's. It has only recently become easy and affordable for the home owner to use them.
Since I went back and reread that post, pardon me for making a complete idiot out of myself.
Neither Delta nor Dewalt makes a production pocket hole cutter, BUT Kreg does... and they been using them in furniture for a VERY long time.
Pat Barber wrote:
The use of pockets for screws is nothing new... used at least as early as the 18th century. Mack Headley, master of the Colonial Williamsburg Cabinet Shop, cut pockets with a gouge in the VCR tape "The Cabinetmaker, Crafting a Card Table." He cut the pockets for screws to hold the top on.
John
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