Tablesaw HP

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I was talking with my dad the other day and he mentioned he might by a 3HP TS from a friend. It got me wondering what the HP was on my Jet Supersaw and I found it was 1 3/4. I guess my question (apart from the obviose of increaced cutting power) is what is the real difference. I rewired my saw for 220 - but doubt that give me an HP upgrade, I bet it just kind of smooths out the power draw. Also, can 3HP really run on 110? He seems to think it can. I have not been able to bog down my TS and I have always found cutting to be great. The only thing I really cut though are Oak and Ply. What benifits would I expect with an upgrade? Can a TS motor be replaced to increase HP, or do you just have to buy a new saw?
For those that do not know, the supersaw was kind of a hybrid cabinet/ contractor saw. Personally I love it, but the only other saw I have owned/used was a benchtop Skil.
I'm guessing anything bigger is just more bragging rights, but what do I know. Any insite appreciated! Mark
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"DejaVoodoo" wrote:

Actually, higher voltage will allow more of the power you are buying to be used by the motor.
Reason:
Less power is wasted heating up the wire delivering the power to the motor (Ohms Law stuff)

NO, not and get any work done.
Bottom Line........................
The higher the voltage, the better since it reduces line losses thus more power to the tool motor.
Lew
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A true 3hp will likely not run on 110 volts, you typically have to go with 220 for a true 3 hp. There are some motors that claim 3 hp even 6.5 hp out of 110 volts but basically the only similirity is the energy it is consuming for a split second before it stalls. Typically however 220 motors will run with little voltage drop, usually when running on 220 volts the motor will come up to speed almost instantly vs. havig to wind up on 110 volt.
My 3hp Jet on 220 will resaw a 1x6 piece of Ipe with the blade fully burrined all the way up with no indication of strain. Ipe is about 2.5 times harder than Oak.

Well no, there is a very noticable differnce in performance. You just dont have a stall problem regardless of what wood you are cutting and how deep the cut. Now if you go from a 3 hp to a 5 hp in a at home setting, that would be bragging.
You are pretty much maxed out with your current saw, to improve performance you would probably need to step up to a cabinet saw running on 220 volts.
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And here in the UK, where 240V is standard, we would consider 3hp as the sensible limit. Anything more and we would be looking for 3ph.
Stuart
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Stuart Winsor

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wrote:

Alas, over here in the US, you have great difficulty getting 3 phase power. My house was built in the late 1960s, and some on my block were built in the early 1960s. The latter houses have 3 phase power for the A/C, but I don't. This situation exists even though all of the transforms for my block reside on a pole behind my house. Three phase power might help me quite a bit as my A/C unit uses a 5 hp compressor motor. The lights always flicker when that thing turns on. Jim
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No different over here actually. If you get a unit on an industrial estate, or maybe a farm might have it, otherwise, even though it's running down the road outside your house a few feet a way it costs "lots" to have it installed.
Mind you, in the UK, because of the high cost of land, you'd be lucky to have enough space anyway. Like yours, my house was built in the 60s and all I have is a garage about 8ft x 16ft for my workshop [1]. A friend of mine has a workshop just under 20ft x 20ft and I'm very envious. He could have larger but if he did his local tax would go up.
Stuart
[1] See Google earth 52deg 20' 27.45"N : 1deg 34' 57.03"W. Don't be fooled by the apparent size of the dwelling, its a typical british "Semi-detached" house - two dwellings built side by side and sharing a "party" wall. The conservatory belongs to my neighbour. I have a ground floor area of around 600sq ft. My neighbours house is currently on the market and the asking price is 280,000 pounds
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Stuart Winsor

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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com says...

My house has two heat pumps (2.5T and 3.5T, IIRC)[*]. No flicker. ;-)
[*] also allows two zones.
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Keith

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wrote:

I was wondering, in the UK the standard voltage is 240V, what is the normal gauge used for wiring in a home?
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Which wiring? :-)
2.5mmsq twin and earth would be normal for a power ring main - probably feeding one floor. 30/32A fuse or MCB in the consumer unit because all portable appliances are connected by a plug containing a fuse (max 13A).
A kitchen would normally have a ring main of its own these days.
6mmsq would feed a cooker, again fused at 30/32A but lighting might be 1-1.5mmsq with a 5A fuse - again this would be per floor..
The feed to my garage from the house is 6mmsq, 32A MCB, and then that is distributed round the garage using a ring main of 2.5mmsq. This I installed myself, most might have nothing more than a feed for some lighting and possibly a socket outlet for a battery charger.
Sorry I don't know how these sizes translates to AWG.
As you are probably aware air conditioning is rare in homes in the UK and, by and large, gas is used for heating and usually for cooking too. Electric heating is very expensive and oil, which would be used in areas away from town would be intermediate in price.
If you are out in the country and can obtain a regular supply of wood, woodburners are also common for heating but possibly using LPG for cooking.
Stuart
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Stuart Winsor

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Stuart wrote:

2.5 mmsq - between 14 and 12 gauge 1.5 mmsq - between 14 and 16 gauge 6 mmsq - between 9 and 10 gauge
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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Oh! Thank you Nova, looks similar to in the US. I would have thought much smaller gauge.
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wrote:

I don't know what size wire connects my circuit breaker box to the wires on the pole. I can tell you that the box is full of 15 and 20 amp circuit breakers, 30 and 40 amp breakers for the kitchen and drier, as well as 60 amp breakers for the A/C. I use gas for water heating. Jim
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The majority of power distribution, other than to farms and such, in the UK is by underground cable and I don't have any idea what size that is either but the first thing it is connected to in the house is the electricity supply company fuse. In our case it is 60A but in more modern installations might be 80A or in a large modern house as high as 100A.
Good job we don't have A/C :-)
My understanding is that in the US you have a 220V supply centre tapped to earth giving you 220V for heavy loads such as A/C and heating and 110V for other appliances. Is this correct?
Hmmm, probably should be on alt.electrical-engineering or some such :-)
Where I am its 23.55 and I'm thinking of going to bed. Catch up with you guys' posts in the morning.
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Stuart Winsor

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"Stuart" wrote:

Your circuitry is correct, it is known as a "Three wire Edison" circuit
The voltage rating these days is 120V/240V for distribution equipment such as transformers.
The voltage rating these days is 115V/230V for utilization equipment such as motors.
The difference is to allow for line losses.
Lew
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Stuart wrote:

Stuart;
You are correct about 220VAC in the US. In the circuit breaker box each adjacent breaker is attached to alternate sides of the service entrance. i.e. 1)left 2)right 3)left 4)right and so on. The second line of breakers are just the opposite. The occasional 3phase circuit is wired in a similar fashion except there are 3 circuits involved. Home 3 phase is very rare.
Dave Nagel
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Thanks to everyone for your information.
Stuart
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Stuart Winsor

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wrote:

An ordinary wall outlet.
Snip
Thank you
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:14:05 -0700 (PDT), DejaVoodoo

It didn't. What it did was reduce the amperage required by the saw. The advantage of that is as Lew said, less voltage drop in the wiring making a little more power available at the saw. How much depends entirely on the electrical resistance in the wiring to the saw. Assuming the same wiring resistance, the percentage voltage drop for a given wattage at 240v is 1/4 that at 120v.

Theoretically, yes. You could run a 3HP motor on 1.5 volt flashlight batteries - theoretically. But it's not practical, either the 1.5 or 120 volts. You need a minimum 20 amp circuit at 240 volts for most 3HP machines. Double that for 120 volts although with a high efficiency motor you might squeak by on a 30 amp circuit. But you wouldn't be happy with the results. In fact, I doubt that you're going to find very many 3HP woodworking machines that can be configured for 120 volt operation.

Again, theoretically yes. If you can find a higher HP motor with the same NEMA or IEC frame size, it should be a fairly simple matter to replace the motor. Otherwise, it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble or expense to rebuild, modify, or fabricate new brackets to hang the motor.
Although the saw structure should have been designed with a considerable safety factor, it's impossible to say, in general, what problems might arise from the increased loads if you do indeed use the higher power available from the motor. Also you have to consider getting the additional power from the motor to the blade. Most, if not all, the 1 to 1.5 HP contractor saws use a single V-belt to spin the blade. My 3 HP saw uses a 3 groove sheave and 3 V-belts. Overkill? Maybe, but you might find that with a new, higher power motor, you also need to upgrade the sheave/belt configuration.

I can certainly understand why. The difference must be like night and day.

My personal opinion is that for hobbyist, home workshop applications, anything much over about 3HP in a 10" saw is getting into the "bragging rights" area. Occasionally, the extra power in a 5HP machine will come in handy, and is very nice to have when you need it, but I believe most hobbyist woodworkers rarely use the extra power. I can say, for certain, that I've never had any problems with insufficient power on my 3HP saw.
But, I have one of each, and I see the difference between a 1.5HP contractor saw and a 3HP cabinet saw as being quite significant. Possibly not to the framing carpenter working with HD "white wood", but certainly to anyone doing much with furniture grade hardwoods.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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the biggest advantage is safety. an underpowered saw will bog down sooner. bogging down is likely to be followed by kickback. the next advantage is being able to cut thicker/harder stuff faster/ more smoothly. the next advantage is being able to run blades with higher tooth counts.

some saws have proprietary motors. you'll have to research yours.
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DejaVoodoo wrote:
<snipped>

When you start ripping up lots of 3" hardwood you'll understand.
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dadiOH
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