Flavel Caress HE gas fire?

[Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downst]

Installed only 4 years ago and only had little use and now will not strike up. You can hold the lever down to bring up the pilot light, but on releasing the lever, instead of the fire bursting into life, the pilot light just goes out.

The gas engineer who installed it thinks it might be a thermostat problem and proposes to charge £90 to replace it and then, if still a problem, to charge a further £190 to change the gas valve. (And will not give a reduced quote to replace both anyway despite that a large part of the effort involved would be common to both operations)

THis is on top of already having paod £!60 this year for the service and replacement of the front bar supporting the coals.

I'm loth to spend money when the cause of the fault remains unknown lest the total money paid this year would exceed the cost of a completely new fire.

Does anyone have experience of this particular gas fire and its faults?

[tabbypurr]

Thermocouple failure is most likely. Bad gas valve a lot less likely. ISTR paying around £6 for the last thermocouple.

NT

[alan_m]

+1 Most probably the thermocouple (not thermostat), a component costing less than a fiver but replacement cost will be mainly labour.

The pilot light heats up the thermocouple which in turns enables the gas value to be turned on to provide gas to the pilot when you release the manual lever/switch.

To the OP - try manually holding the pilot light on for 60 seconds before releasing the lever/switch. You may be able to just see the tip of the thermcouple in the pilot flame. It should be glowing red from the heat of the pilot light.

The pilot flame may not be large enough or has been directed away from the thermocouple as a result of a small piece of crude partially blocking the pilot jet.

[Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downst]

I'd be surprised if it is a thermocouple rather than one of those devices where a liquid is vapourised because there is no electrical supply to the gas fire other than the 1.5V cell used for the igniter; the few mV from a thermocouple being IMHO too feeble to operate a mechanical valve.

But thanks for your comment.

[Tim+]

Well you might be surprised but the electrical output of a thermocouple can hold a solenoid open. One with a lot of very fine windings I believe but they do work.

Tim

[Chris Green]

Yes, certainly the flame failure devices on hobs for caravans/boats use thermocouples to hold a valve open using a solenoid. Excellent way of providing a basically failsafe system (though of course a sticky solenoid *might* stick open).

[Dave W]

I've always understood that a bimetallic strip sits in the pilot light. When it get hot it bends and opens the main valve.

[Mark]

try this, hold the pilot leaver on for 10seconds then release it very very slowly

-

[alan_m]

Thermocouples were used extensively on older boilers that had a permanent pilot light. They held the gas valve on!

Modern boilers don't have pilot lights

see page 25. para 3.2.3 of the manual for your fire

Where it states that the pilot light heats up a thermocouple.

[alan_m]

[Cynic]

Probably has an oxygen depletion sensing thermocouple assembly. Try cleaning it as a first step. Do you still have the installation and service manual that came with the fire?

[Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downst]

Yes, I have the manual but I'm not legally qualified to tamper with any part of the gas system.

[Roger Hayter]

An FAQ. You need no legal qualifications for doing your own gas plumbing, only competence. And it is quite possible that you are competent to replace a thermocouple and clean a gas jet. The main thing is probably knowing what you don't know, and either finding out or leaving well alone.

[Tim+]

Well in that case bend over and drop your pants as you?re gonna get rogered.

If your fire doesn?t have a remote control then I believe it uses a ?conventional? thermocouple. These only make an electrical connection so you?re not tampering with any gas connection.

If you have a remote it uses an ?oxy pilot? assembly which does involve a gas connection.

Personally I?d tackle either but the former shouldn?t deter you from a DIY repair.

Your service man sounds like an utter shyster. The symptoms are totally characteristic of a failed thermocouple and they only cost a few quid. It

*could* be the gas valve but only a con man would change that before trying a new thermocouple.

Tim

[John Kenyon]

But if you had read it, you would have found out that...

"Note : Because this appliance is fitted with an atmosphere sensing ?Oxy-Pilot? it is not possible to replace the thermocouple separately, because the thermocouple position is factory set to a tight tolerance. Any replacement of parts on the pilot requires a complete new pilot assembly." (Page 34 (MC models), and page 37 (SC models)

You could also look up the part numbers and find out the replacement cost to find out whether you're being ripped off or not.

In any case, if you don't trust the gas safe engineer - find another one.

[Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downst]

It's not remote controlled (lever at right hand side) but it DOES have an oxy-pilot assembly.

[Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downst]

Thanks, I had already quoted that bit to the gas engineer.

[Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downst]

Been quoted £90 for replacement, but it has to be the whole oxypilot assembly which, in response to another poster has a trade price of £40-10p, so probably not being ripped off.

In response to another poster, one just has not got to be competent but must also legally be a registered installer which, of course, I'm not!

[Tim+]

Okay. They?re not that expensive. (About £36 delivered). Interesting page here with info on how they work. Pilot might just have a fluffed up air intake.

Tim

[Tim+]

Having looked at several pictures I?d say that it uses a perfectly standard (cheap) thermocouple and that I personally would be quite happy to replace just the thermocouple.

Yes, positioning is important but the bracket holding it look designed to hold it in the right place without adjustment.

Given that replacing it will cost less than a fiver and doesn?t involve messing with any gas connections it seems a bit of a no brainer to me. At worst, the flame won?t stay lit and you?ll be an extra £5 out of pocket.

Tim