Flavel Caress HE gas fire?

Installed only 4 years ago and only had little use and now will not strike up. You can hold the lever down to bring up the pilot light, but on releasing the lever, instead of the fire bursting into life, the pilot light just goes out.
The gas engineer who installed it thinks it might be a thermostat problem and proposes to charge £90 to replace it and then, if still a problem, to charge a further £190 to change the gas valve. (And will not give a reduced quote to replace both anyway despite that a large part of the effort involved would be common to both operations)
THis is on top of already having paod £!60 this year for the service and replacement of the front bar supporting the coals.
I'm loth to spend money when the cause of the fault remains unknown lest the total money paid this year would exceed the cost of a completely new fire.
Does anyone have experience of this particular gas fire and its faults?
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On Tuesday, 8 October 2019 19:12:17 UTC+1, Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstai rs Computer wrote:

Thermocouple failure is most likely. Bad gas valve a lot less likely. ISTR paying around £6 for the last thermocouple.
NT
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On 08/10/2019 21:05, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

+1 Most probably the thermocouple (not thermostat), a component costing less than a fiver but replacement cost will be mainly labour.
The pilot light heats up the thermocouple which in turns enables the gas value to be turned on to provide gas to the pilot when you release the manual lever/switch.
To the OP - try manually holding the pilot light on for 60 seconds before releasing the lever/switch. You may be able to just see the tip of the thermcouple in the pilot flame. It should be glowing red from the heat of the pilot light.
The pilot flame may not be large enough or has been directed away from the thermocouple as a result of a small piece of crude partially blocking the pilot jet.
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On 08/10/2019 21:31, alan_m wrote:

I'd be surprised if it is a thermocouple rather than one of those devices where a liquid is vapourised because there is no electrical supply to the gas fire other than the 1.5V cell used for the igniter; the few mV from a thermocouple being IMHO too feeble to operate a mechanical valve.
But thanks for your comment.
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Well you might be surprised but the electrical output of a thermocouple can hold a solenoid open. One with a lot of very fine windings I believe but they do work.
Tim
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Yes, certainly the flame failure devices on hobs for caravans/boats use thermocouples to hold a valve open using a solenoid. Excellent way of providing a basically failsafe system (though of course a sticky solenoid *might* stick open).
--
Chris Green
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On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:10:21 +0100, Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs

I've always understood that a bimetallic strip sits in the pilot light. When it get hot it bends and opens the main valve.
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Dave W

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On 08/10/2019 23:44, Dave W wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiCmfW1rTRY

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On 08/10/2019 22:10, Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer wrote:

Thermocouples were used extensively on older boilers that had a permanent pilot light. They held the gas valve on!
Modern boilers don't have pilot lights
see page 25. para 3.2.3 of the manual for your fire
https://www.flavelfires.co.uk/media/mconnect_uploadfiles/i/n/installation_maintenance_user_instructions_55.pdf
Where it states that the pilot light heats up a thermocouple.
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On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:10:21 +0100, Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer

Naah, it's the current that creates the magnetic field.
Check the thermocouple is getting hot, possibly by using an external gas torch.
Thomas Prufer
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After serious thinking Thomas Prufer wrote :

The current operates the solenoid, but the solenoid is not able to operate the valve, the solenoid is only able to retain the valve in the open position. The appliance operator provides the effort needed to open the valve, the solenoid can then latch it.

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On 09/10/2019 17:26, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Interesting
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On 08/10/2019 21:05, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Been quoted £90 for replacement, but it has to be the whole oxypilot assembly which, in response to another poster has a trade price of £40-10p, so probably not being ripped off.
In response to another poster, one just has not got to be competent but must also legally be a registered installer which, of course, I'm not!
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On 09/10/2019 11:44, Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer wrote:

Are you the home owner or just renting?
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On 09/10/2019 13:20, alan_m wrote:

My wife owns the home; I suppose that you might consider me to be the lodger :-)
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On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:17:43 UTC+1, Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer wrote:

Or the kept man :-)
Owain
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If it’s not rented property you don’t need to be a registered installer. Competence can be gained though a bit of basic research.
This IS a DIY forum. Why ask for advice here if you’re not prepared to consider a DIY option?
Tim
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On 09/10/2019 13:42, Tim+ wrote:

Because there might have been anecdotal experience from other, polite, posters.
As it happens, it now seems that I'm due a free remedy by Flavel themselves ...
https://www.flavelfires.co.uk/service-call-centre
... having had the thing serviced regularly since installation.
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On 09/10/2019 14:16, Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer wrote:

That says that you would have had to paid for a oxy-pilot assembly every year as part of the service.
If the oxy-pilot assembly hasn't been changed in the previous 4 years then this guarantee is void.
The fact that they want you to change the pilot assembly every year suggests that is the weak point in the system.
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On 09/10/2019 16:32, alan_m wrote:

It will be the oxypilot that needs a good clean and try a new battery (duracell). The oxypilot will be £40-50 to buy and not a fiver as an earlier post. Oxypilots are a calibrated pilot assembly specific to that appliance. Get a second opinion as it may well be something and nothing. Im Gas Safe registered
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