Surreal Borg Experience

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In the countertop business, I deal a lot with plumbers and electricians (Cooktops, garberators).
If it is a retrofit, my mantra is : "Breakfast on the old countertop, dinner on the new one." That means that all my stuff is in place as the plumber walks in. (My insurance company prefers I use a licensed plumber, and I'm happy the keep the extra premium in my pocket.) Liability can be pretty serious as a leak can take out a guy's electronics if his man-cave happens to be below the kitchen, etc., etc. Sometimes, although seldom, something can happen. I say seldom because I have worked with the same plumbers for well over 25 years. IF something happens...like a dishwasher leaking, like Swing, I am there within the hour and then I call the plumber.........:

for them if necessary ... even then I will generally stop by myself during the service call just to make sure the job is done to my satisfaction.<<<<<
THAT you can take to the bank. THAT is what gets you a 90+% referral rate. The other 10% find me through my website. THAT is what whoops everybody's ass that tries to muscle into my territory. Service, service, service. ....and a fair price. Not cheap. Fair.
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On 12/31/2009 3:38 PM, Robatoy wrote:

Normally I wouldn't personally touch something like that with a 10' pole, but recently, on a kitchen Leon and I built and installed, I ran across a situation where the kitchen Island propane cooktop, and telescoping downdraft vent, bought by the client from two different online sources (AND *two different brands* to boot!), needed to be installed, and, for a myriad of reasons, with no one to do the job on time.
Decided to bite the bullet and do it myself, which, besides the usual installation of the units, entailed moving the regulator on the cooktop unit(GE) to make room in the cabinet for the downdraft vent unit (Frigidaire) ... I am not a plumber, don't play one on TV, and hate anything to do with "pipes" in general.
Looking ahead, and before I would even let the client back in the house for the night, I scheduled the propane gas company to do a "disconnect" in the morning, and then, after conveniently finishing the job, a "reconnect" in the afternoon (the lines had already been pressure tested).
Neither of which was remotely necessary.
However, a gas "connection" in an unincorporated area requires a safety inspection of all gas appliances/installations, which meant, coincidentally, that _my_ work would undergo a rigorous safety check for proper installation, connections, and leak test ... all done under the umbrella of their state license and liability insurance.
Sometimes, you do what ya gotta do to skin the particular cat ....

Notice that those guys who were cheap during this last building boom are now shoe merchants or ribbon clerks ...
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Swingman wrote:

Thanks, that's kind of what i expected. Bottom line, I don't think I'm out of line in my expectations.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

I'm curious as to what item you are referring to.
Answering as a consumer, not a builder: In the case of appliances, I'd call the manufacturer or his dealer or authorized service center, not the builder.
If a door was not working properly, I'd call the builder.
Refrigerator or heater, I'd expect same day or next day service. Dishwasher or non critical appliance, 3 to 5 days. Other problems, such as the door sticking or window not going up, a week would be acceptable. Same with one toilet in a four bathroom house, but if it is the only toilet, get here NOW!.
If I was having a house built, I'd be choosing the appliances anyway, not the builder. I can assure you 99% of builders would not choose what I'd want installed.
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"Swingman" wrote

There is a Sears appliance outlet center not far from me. Do you know anything about the outlet appliances. I know they are good prices there. I assume that the quality would be the same as the other appliances, right? Any way, I thought I would ask. Maybe you heard something.
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identical to the models sold in the retail stores, except that most of them have varying degrees of cosmetic damage. Presumably it's the same at all Sears appliance outlets.
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On 12/31/2009 3:15 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

AAMOF, we bought our own Kenmore dual fuel range from a Sears outlet center.
It was a "scratch and dent" item.
The "scratch" was that the bottom drawer slide was off on one side and apparently no one but a woodworker knows how to put side mounted drawers back in?
It's been 8 years and still haven't located the "dent".
Saved well over $1k on the appliance.
I would not hesitate to go for it, with common sense, of course.
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Year 10 for an all stainless Kitchenaid, not a single problem Washes stuff clean, clean, clean. Prior to that, a single-knobbed Maytag which, by best estimate, was about 20 years old. Was replaced for cosmetic and acoustic reasons.
Yeah our KitchenAid was a top of the line $1200 unit but it simply left the dishes dirty, with a film on them. When we went back to the Whirlpool we got clean dishes again.
We work our DW pretty hard, it always at least goes through the pot scrubber cycle or higher and there is not any such thing as prerinse in our house.
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Leon wrote:

Yeah, Maytag is supposed to be good. I can't say if it was the dishwasher or the goobers who brought it in to set it up. I'm not sure, but I pretty much remember that turning the box upside down and letting the water from the factory testing flood the interior of the dishwasher [and my floor] in not standard setup procedure. It's very likely that their action got water in the controls and screwed something up. Or it's possible this is an infant failure. Phone calls to both Maytag and the HD delivery number were highly unsatisfying -- Maytag said they'd get to it Jan 6, HD delivery folks could send someone out Jan 7. Called the local HD who sold it and spoke to the manager there, she was much better at listening and agreed that this was not right. Given that I called within a 48 hour window of installation, she made arrangements to have the dishwasher replaced. However, that won't happen until the 7'th either. In the meantime, as I pondered my options looking at how much effort would be required to uninstall and just return the darned thing, I found the schematic and troubleshooting guide on the inner side of the kick panel. You should never give an electrical engineer a schematic. :-) I found the part that talked about "blinking lights", followed the troubleshooting guide and opened the console, reseating the connector for the control box. After plugging in the dishwasher, no more blinking lights. I was able to get it to run and at least get the load out of the dishwasher. Told the HD manager this when she called me to tell me she was going to get a replacement for us. I also told her I was not comfortable that this was *the* solution -- she agreed and agreed that replacement is still a good idea. Good news is that we aren't going to be handwashing dishes for the next week while they get their act together. Also told her I don't want the same bozos delivering this time that did the original one and told her why. She agreed to work with the delivery company to make sure that doesn't happen. In addition to turning the thing on its head, they left a mess from both the old and new dishwasher drips. I just stopped one of them from running the old dishwasher on his handtruck, dripping water and leaving black wheel marks across my living room carpet and got him turned around to go through the garage, a mere 10 feet from the dishwasher location.
IMO, this whole thing was and is, completely unacceptable. I understand having staff booked up. But if you screw something up and it fails to work, it is NOT acceptable that a 1 week delay with additional inconvenience for the customer be incurred. That becomes your problem and remedying it NOW is your highest priority -- you need to figure out how to fix it ASAP, not when it fits in the schedule. Needless to say, this customer is not delighted.
/whoa. Rant off

This replaced a GE dishwasher that was probably close to 20 years old (it was in the house when we bought it 10 years ago and appears to have been the original DW. The GE had its motor replaced about 4 years ago but other parts were falling apart. The door counterbalance cables had come broken and the upper rack mechanisms were breaking. It was time to be replaced.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:43:14 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita

Yeah, Maytag, Sears, Minwhacked, Thompson's Waterseal, Yugo... Great marketing, for awhile, then the real rep catches up.
My brand new Made-by-Maytag MagicChef washer died a couple weeks into its life, the motor letting the magic smoke out. When the guy came to replace it, he swung a leg up on top of the dryer to reach back and unplug the washer, as I'd done on many a washer/dryer in my years as an owner. Just before he left, he was buffing the top of the dryer when I saw the fresh dent. "They sure dont' make 'em like they used to." we said, as he took the number to send for a replacement lid.
-- Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven. Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:07:35 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Well, if you can open some of those clamshells with a set of car keys you are a better man than I am! I had the privilege of trying to open a flashlight from Costco on Christmas. I tried getting through the plastic with my pocketknife - a very nice high-end knife with an ats-34 blade sharpened to a shaving sharp - and I could barely force the point through the plastic. After messing around with it for a while until I started worrying about slipping and removing limbs I finally went to the shop for the aircraft snips. That stuff was so tough it would have snapped any car key you tried to force through it.
Clamshell packaging is of the devil, I say!
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
My laptop knows me too well - it just announced "your battery is low!"
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Leon wrote:

Some help you don't want. I ran into an order-taker named Clamidia. Honest.
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On 12/31/2009 3:51 PM, HeyBub wrote:

I don't suppose it's possible you misheard the name "Claudia"...
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See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
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The strangest phone center name I heard was the guy who called himself "Mustang."
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Snip

FIY there is a tool designed to open the welded plastic product containers. The tool typically has orange handles and they are similar to offset tin snips. I got mine at HD for about $10.
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Leon wrote:

IIRC, you gave me the ones I have, right?
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IIRC I did. Is it by your missing saddle square? LOL
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Leon wrote:

IIRC, you gave me the ones I have, right?
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"Leon" wrote

I am not sure that would have worked on this thing though. It was very thick and solid. The padlock was locked around a heavy chunk of plastic. I was trying to free the keys so I could unlock the padlock. I think that is why the key hole is on the side. It allowed for this kind of packaging. There was some kind of plastic fastener or rivet holding the keys in position in their own little holder. It took several cuts just to free the keys. Once the keys were free though, it was a simple matter to unlock the padlock and remove it.
When I think about it, you have a design that is wholly determined by packaging. It looks pretty hanging there in the store. The safety hazards to open it or the ability to put the key on a normal key ring was unimportant to them. Another case of marketing getting in the way of function and safety.
I also find it significant that there are lots of three and four padlocks in one package. And very few singles in this size. They run sales on the singles. Those disappear fast. And folks show up wanting to get a single and having to buy multiple locks because they are out of the singles.
Do you ever get the feeling that you get screwed everytime you go to that place???
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Actually this is it..... It is pretty heavy duty. The trick is to cut just inside the weld on the package but it will cut just about anywhere on the package.
http://www.enjoyzibra.com/openit /
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