sizing home jointers and planers?

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I'm sorry you were a patient for 40 years (I hope you were at least an outpatient, not actually in a bed in the VA for all that time). But kidding aside, I believe the Manhattan VA is an excellent hospital, with caring health professionals up and down the ranks. I was a bench researcher all that time. No patient care whatsoever. I did use a bit of their employee health care, and those experiences were good if not excellent.
It's in general the bureaucracy that is invoked when not really always necessary, and immediately discarded when inconvenient to the rulers.
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On 4/11/2012 3:07 PM, Han wrote:

LOL I think the terminology is "numbers", not patients. The loudspeaker in each clinic is continually bellowing out: "Now serving Numbers 756, 757, 758, ...), which means you get to proceed to another window, and take another number. ;)
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The pharmacy windows in the Manhattan VA were just off the main lobby, and by golly were those lines long ...
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On 4/10/2012 10:03 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

So we are talking gas going up in price to about 20 times what it used to be in 1970`1972. A new and nicely equipped pick up in 1971 stickered for about $2k and now about $40k
I guarantee you that if an alternative fuel that we have to purchase replaces petroleum based products we will be paying more for the same amount of energy. If this was not true we would have switched decades ago. Oil is way too plentiful to be expensive, relatively.
If electric cars become mainstream demand will increase and our electricity rates will surely increase, and not just the amount of extra usage but for the same reason oil prices increase.
Just wait until some one comes up with a way to measure every breath you take...
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That reasoning leaves out the increased efficiency in using energy. Right now, natural gas is even cheaper than coal, and much more friendly for the environment. That may not last forever, but seems likely for at least a number of years. Electric propulsion for vehicles is alo much more efficient than gasoline, but it suffers from the big HUGE problem of storage. You can't really store electricity very easily. Li batteries were a great leap forward, but we need at least another 10-fold greater storage capability per unit mass, plus the ability to quickly recharge. Not very easy to accomplish.
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On 4/11/2012 7:57 AM, Han wrote:

Correct! and a rule of thumb today is that a typical automobile can be powered on 1/4 the energy using electricity as when using gasoline.
But we don't create energy as individuals and we have to buy it from somewhere. Every one uses energy and has to have it. Even those that are supposedly "off the grid" depend on the outside world to provide what they don't produce.

The big problem with alternative energy is that individuals will never be able to produce what they use and will always have to buy energy from some one. Energy is what makes the world work and we as a society will always pay a high price for it over the long term.
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On 4/11/2012 7:57 AM, Han wrote: ...

But using NG for central generation is simply "just stupid" use of the resource that is far more important for things like heating, petrochemicals, etc., etc., etc., ... It is a _VERY_ shortsighted fix to what isn't clearly a problem.
I also don't think there's that much overall efficiency gained in the EV--even best central-station generation is only approx 40% thermal efficiency so even if the transmission and utilization were 100% that's not "much more" efficient than burning the fuel directly. Some, perhaps, but "much"? -- I don't think so--that juice has to come from somewhere, and unless you're willing to take it as can find it, it has to be backed up by baseload generation from some source. As long as you talk only on peripheral marginal replacement rather than a major source one can get by but when it becomes a dominant factor the rules on availability change drastically.
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wrote:

I found an exceedingly good value in my $26k Toyota Tundra.

Oh, absolutely, the alt fuels will be more expensive. The have gov't built into them via subsidies. Subsidies which should not be there. That's how corn-produced ethanol got its stranglehold on us. Sheeit!

And watch the oil companies rush to fracking the entire mainland US, ruining all groundwater in the process, to meet the new demands on electricity. I believe that over half of Americans could put good use to an electric car.

It'll happen in space before it does here, I reckon. 'Course, I'm still waiting for The Cull to happen. Once the sheeple stampede, gov't will start taking a back seat. We're in for scary times ahead. The question will be: From whom? Gov't or the people?
-- Let no man imagine that he has no influence. Whoever he may be, and wherever he may be placed, the man who thinks becomes a light and a power. -- Henry George
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On 4/11/2012 9:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

And that is about what I paid but I was talking sticker price then and now. My middle of the road model snickered for $34k and I am pretty sure yours snickered for considerably more also.

Even if the government was not involved, LOL, the price would would still be high. Energy is a unique product and is priced accordingly, the demand is high and always will be and therefore will be considered expensive because great numbers one will always be willing to pay the price.

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wrote:

No, $26,071 out the door new in Dec 2007. Standard cab, 6.5' standard bed, Northwest towing package (radiator, 2" receiver hitch, larger battery/alt/wiring), SR5 sport package, 4.7L small V-8, A/C, power windows/doors, lovely TAN interior (I abhor gray!)
OK, checking on a brand new one today: I can't get a V-6 without going to a freakin' double cab, so 4-cyl w/5sp auto it is. $26,141. The local Ford dealer wanted about $40k for the same vehicle when I was doing my research in '07.
-- Let no man imagine that he has no influence. Whoever he may be, and wherever he may be placed, the man who thinks becomes a light and a power. -- Henry George
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On 4/11/2012 4:50 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Scratching head.... was that sticker??? Probably not, I paid exactly $28k drive out but the truck stickered for $34K+
But I got,,... ;~) 5.7 V* and honestly getting just under 17 mpg on average in town driving. 6 auto speed trans, 4 door, SR5, running boards, bed protector, towing package, AC and pwr doors windows, Stipe, tinted front windows, Toyota alarm with glass break, mats, sliding back glass, Alloy wheels, tool box under back seat, extra sound deadening.
And a beautiful grey interior and charcoal grey exterior. ;~)

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wrote:

No sticker o mine. I ordered it from the factory. Then, for the second time in my life, the dealer bent me over. The two times in my life when I ordered new vehicles from the factory have been nightmares. Ford's dealer submitted two orders under the same number, so when my 6 weeks was up, they said "Oops, your truck was never built." After ordering my Toyota, the dealer came back and said that the factory wasn't building any more '07s, so they found one close to what I ordered and I got that. Gold paint (which I like better than the white I'd ordered) and the towing package were the only two changes. Oh, and they dropped the price by another grand, totaling $3k off the retail. It was one of only 3 standard cabs with the tan interior left available in the USA at the time, too.

Running boards, y'old GOAT? I guess I have the alarm, too, and mats, which were carefully recalled and found not to be a problem. Oh, one other change was a stacked CD player: 6 instead of 1.

<Buick>
-- Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling. -- Margaret Lee Runbeck
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On 4/11/2012 11:32 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Well there was a sticker, that is law but they do not have to attach it unless it goes on the lot for to be sold. The vehicles I have ordered all had stickers that were given to me when I gave them a check.
Then, for the

Buying an 07 in Dec of 07, yeah I imagine there we no more 07's being built any more. I am suprised that the 08's were not already in production. I bought my 07 in the middle of July and that was near the end of the build year.
Gold paint (which I like better than

I originally ordered silver but I really like the charcoal grey. I got about the same deal on mine as the one I originally ordered with the V6 because I was ready to close the deal and they would not have to order another unit. Read that as a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

LOL. My wife insisted, it is a tall step for her and those that ride in the back. I think I have opened the sliding back glass once to see how it worked.
I guess I have the alarm, too, and mats,

I think they all came with some type of integrated alarm, they added the glass break sensor, a little doo dad on the center dash next to the MP3 jack.
I really really like the tool box under the back seat, I keep jumper cables, tie downs, etc under there.
I am not sure if my mats have a problem or not, I took them out and put in the HD rubber mats that hold melted ice, snow. Not that this a problem in Houston but we do get rain and the mats keep the water off of the carpet.

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wrote:

I didn't know that.

I specifically didn't want an '08 due to the style changes.

In the Texas sunshine? Oy vey!

Why didn't you get the electric automatic steps for it? Only $1,200 and none of the ugliness while driving. http://tinyurl.com/7nfmo8n

I used it all the time in my F150, and it saved my neck once when an idiot housewife slammed into my dock bumper at 65mph on the freeway when the rest of us had slowed to 35 for rush hour traffic.
It's too hard to reach while driving in the Tundra, so I don't often use it.

Yeah, little red blinkin' light.

I like the amount of tools I can get in the back when there's no seat in the way.
-- Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling. -- Margaret Lee Runbeck
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On 4/13/2012 9:52 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Dealer did not offer. And the truck came off of the transport with the running boards.

No, the blinking light is up at the clock, my thing looks like a small microphone, it is black and has several small holes in it.

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The wider planer lets you shave the thickness of larger panels. Note that it does not neccessarily "flatten" panels. If the panel goes in cupped/bowed, it will come out cupped/bowed. The 13" benchtop planer is common for the average hobbyist woodworker (like myself) who cannot (or doesn't need to) spend the money on larger stand-alone machines. Though if cost isn't a consideration, bigger is better. :) The Performax sanders are another way to surface a large panels though I haven't actually seen one in action.
On 04/07/2012 02:08 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

of the commercially available jointers are 6" and the planers are about 12". What's the point in having a planer twice as large?

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On 4/7/2012 12:08 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

of the commercially available jointers are 6" and the planers are about 12". What's the point in having a planer twice as large?

I don't think you have been looking at "commercial grade" equipment if that's all you have seen.
A 6" jointer is about the smallest you can buy.
A 12" planer is also quite small by commercial standards.
Here are a few examples:
http://www.deltamachinery.com/products/jointers
http://www.deltamachinery.com/products/planers
The size depends on the stock you work with and the amount of money you have.
The 6" jointer is fine for smaller, shorter stock, while the 8" is for wider and longer stock. The 8" jointer normally has a MUCH longer table,ex: 6" jointer 46" 8" jointer 76"
The planers also follow similar patterns.
If you buy s4s lumber, a big jointer is not needed but if you buy rough cut, the need is there for the jointer and the planer.
The smaller "lunch box" planer(12") is fine for many shops and is MUCH cheaper to get into. The next step up is a 15" and that's when price makes a real difference. You are paying for bigger, much more powerful motors and heavier equipment. a standard 15" planer is "about" 340 lbs, while the 12" is 76 lbs.
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On 4/9/2012 1:06 PM, Pat Barber wrote:

<http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/95
A nicely built little 4" jointer. Dad had one; brother has it now. As noted, the disadvantage of the smaller ones is the shorter bed lengths; "bigger is better" is certainly true w/ jointers, especially.
The only thing I disliked w/ the Delta 4" is that doing the cabinets for folks used some hard maple for the facings and the lightness of the cutterhead made it chatter more than one would like if tried to face a 2"+ piece; just not enough mass. It did fine on jointing glue edges even on the maple.
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Yes...that was a nice little jointer 50 years ago.
Over at owwm.org, I see many restorations of those jointers.
That is 37-290 Deluxe I believe.

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Actually there are some 4" benchtop models. Not noteworthy.
On 4/9/2012 2:06 PM, Pat Barber wrote:

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