REQ: New Yankee Workshop Deluxe Router Station Plans

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HMFIC-1369 wrote:

Man, you're stretching for something to gaff over here, arntcha... :(
You can say whatever you want, and you'll undoubtedly be able to find some product somewhere that has any specific set of licensing agreement conditions you wish--folks are invariably creative that way.
For a simple copyright which is all that I <ever> even mentioned, all of these extraneous conditions are of no bearing whatsoever, there just crap you're making up to hear yourself type, I guess.
For your own use I don't think it actually defeats the intent of the copyright to make a single Braille or audio copy--certainly I would expect virtually any publisher would grant permission on the condition you did not resell the copy anyway if you were to feel compelled. Certainly there is a nation-wide organization which does precisely the audio transcription for the hearing impaired at libraries and other locations--I know as I have read for them. I'm not sure of what the organization did precisely, but I suspect they have a blanket arrangement w/ various publishers.
I'll reiterate--I was speaking <specifically> oa a simple copyright in the context of the OP wishing to get a product for which rightfully he would have ahd to pay. The only extent of significance is that one of the purposes of copyright is specifically to prevent such copying. And, more specifically, my comment was addressed to the OP in that the purpose of internet from its origin as ARPAnet was <not> to spread copyright work around willy-nilly--it was, in fact, a specific condition of use when I first had access at University to <not> re-transmit such material.
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Not stretching anything. You're the one guessing and making assumptions.. But your ther man huh?

protects
give
mother
even
longer in

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wrote:

Not true. You may be in violation of MickeySoft's license agreement, but not copyright law.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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You are correct, but we are argueing more then one point. A license agreement is a a license agreement, the arguement was that the copyright concerned only violating the software protection, that's not true....
wrote:

it
not
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HMFIC-1369 wrote:
<snip>

Regarding ownership transfer my Windows XP EULA reads:
"Transfer to Third Party. The initial user of the Product may make a one-time transfer of the Product to another end user. The transfer has to include all component parts, media, printed materials, this EULA, and if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity."
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:20:20 -0400, "no(SPAM)vasys"

The EULA for copies of Windows XP distributed with (at least some) new computers prohibits transfer of the software.
Not that this has much to do with making and distributing copies of NYW project plans, of course.
--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact /
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Okay, okay, the whole issue of copyright is VERY CLEAR.
But look at this from a woodworking standpoint. I'm going to be redesigning my router table. Of course, I'll be looking at commercial products. I'll be studying photos and videos-- whatever I get for free on PBS or DIY, that is. I'll examine the photos of the router table Rockler sells, which seems pretty nice. And if I don't buy _that_... well, I will design and build my own.
I mean, I watched Norm's show on the router table, and liked the design. But I knew that I didn't need to buy the plans: I could watch his show and then design my own, with no problem, and it'd probably be closer to my own needs.
Now, if this guy wants plans handed to him, that's nice (if a bit infantile). But if this guys a woodworker, then _why doesn't he try to design one for himself_? I mean, I have no problem designing my workshop, my projects, jigs, etc. I like doing it. So why does this guy _need to buy plans_? Is he so bereft of ideas or creativity or simple engineering skill? Is he so lacking in imagination that he can't shape a tool to his own needs?
To me, this is like a wannabe journalist coming to a newsgroup and saying, "I want to write an article about third-world poverty. Can someone give me an article I can put my name on?"
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You have a really poor grasp of the concept of ownership. Copyright, patent or whatever, someone else created it and that gives them certain rights to protection. Just because you don't consider what someone has created to be a work of art doesn't automatically dismiss their right to protecting it.
I'd like to see what you'd have to say if you created a piece of software or made a movie and then watched as people downloaded it for free while you lost money from poor sales.
Not saying I've never downloaded anything I shouldn't have, just that I'm not going to advocate it or lobby for it online.
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I have an excellent grasp, you didn't read it correctly.
I don't dismiss it you made that assumption.
If they want copyright privileges,then they should be held responsible for providing owners with specific product upgrades and support for the life of the product...
What this says is that, the owner has certain rights as do the creator. Honestly if anybody is still using software that's 10 years old, I'd say that they're having a tough time. If somebody wants copyright's for 20 years, then fine support that product for 20 years! You have to distinguish from devices to software to music and movies! How many times have you bought a product that didn't perform as it claims or have it break. The difficulty in exchanging and repairing is at most difficult or cost prohibitive.
I have patents and certainly protect myself. I simply feel that owners/users should be afforded rights attributed to those who choose to copyright. Freeware is freeware user beware, but as for buying I think consumers should be given equal footing and protection under the copyright laws. Ever buy something that failed that actually cost you more to return, then it did to buy? Happens everyday but there are no laws to protect you.............. Your on your own, they're protected and enforced by the Federal Government
wrote in message news:DLzye.29909

privileges,
patent
a
or
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What's that got to do with using something you don't want to pay for?

And this justifies theft how, exactly?

And what does that have to do with some bozo wandering in asking us to steal plans for him?

In other words, "some guy sold me crappy software so I'm going to steal software from now on"? If it's crappy, don't use it. If you just say it's crappy, and then use it anyway, you're just using an excuse to steal it. Will I support software I wrote 25 years ago? Sure, but you're gonna pay me by the hour, and if you expect something I wrote in 1980, or 1990, or even 2000 to still be under some sort of warranty, well, you're delusional.
Dave Hinz
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Jesus Where Are you Coming From? This has NOTHING to do with NOT PAYING FOR SOMETHING!
EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW....................
Are you challenged, why are you so fixated on theft... I WASN'T TAKING OR JUSTIFYING IT... ONLY STATING THAT CONSUMERS DESERVE EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE EXTENT OF THE COPYRIGHT! You want you cake and eat it too, tough!
did you get left back in 5th grade or something? I don't think I'd pay you very much for anything you've ever done.... Looks like it'd never work right anyway! You can't even read....................
Ta Ta!
wrote:

for
distinguish
bought
difficulty
owners/users
should
to
Government
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wrote:

So the author of a book should keep re-writing it and sending you new copies each year? The product may be complete garbage, but it is still under copyright. Copyright says nothing about quality or usability, or even if you can sue to get your money back, it simply says that *you* can't make copies to sell or give away.
If the product sucks why would you want to make copies to give away anyway?
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Alarmist and irrelevant to the situation at hand. Guy wants a free copy of something that is a commercial product. Just because I own a copy doesn't mean I own the right to give away copies of it. Hardly the same thing as a rummage sale.

I'm the _last_ person to defend how the MPAA and RIAA idiots do business, but - if it's worth watching, it's worth paying for. If you don't want to pay for it because it's 98% crap, well then, don't just steal it because it's no good, just don't _get_ it because it's no good. "I'm going to steal this because it's not worth what they're asking" isn't gonna cut it - if it's not worth it, don't steal it.

Why? You buy something, you buy it with the terms and conditions it's sold under. Some software is great about this, some software is not. Their upgrade policy should be something you consider when you decide if you want to buy a package or not. Again, stealing a package just because you don't like how they do upgrades, is just pretending you're making an ethical statement when you're really just stealing from the software developer whose product you're using without paying for. Been there, done that, stopped writing shareware because of that sort of people.
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See who's talking about stealing anything............If you simply argue for arguments sake...........then have at it!
I basically said that "Equal Protection" should be extended under the Copyright law. Consumers Rights, should be as important as the copyright. I can see you never paid 10K+ for a computer or software application.... that didn't perform as sold. Don't get me wrong, just as there are good honest company's and good honest people. Both deserve protection under the law! But currently the laws weight protects many dishonest company's over an honest persons. My point was the abuse of situations that company's claims are unsupported and the difficulty or making things to costly to resolve happen more and more frequently and in most cases it's buyer beware........
and don't tell me you never bought something, where the product line or company was purchased, the Purchase Agreement thusly null and void, and they still sell the same product now under a different name or even the same, simply voiding the original contracts for the only purpose of evading support for the sake of profit. I purchased a software firewall 5 months ago, it was sold, I now need to pay (the current company) for support or get it fixed, even to upgrade. Nothing about that in the License Agreement I agreed too!
I said nothing about stealing but you really got stuck on that! You must feel very guilty about something huh?
wrote:

wants
Federal
and
it's
have
music
classic
a
privileges,
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Have you ever noticed that when you top-post it makes it really hard to quote the context of what you're talking about?

You have no idea of my technical experience and responsibilities. And 10K would be cheap for most of the software packages I deal with - that wouldn't even pay yearly maintenance on most of them.
Just because you pay 6 figures for a software package, doesn't mean they have to, or should, support you forever. And yet, you still don't have the right to give their work away to someone else, because you bought the right to use it, not to copy and distribute it.

So stop buying Microsoft, and 90% of your problems will go away. Even though I feel strongly that they have set back the world of computing by a decade or more, making people just accept security and stability problems as "normal and expected", I _still_ won't steal from them or help anyone else to do it.

What does that have to do with some guy wandering in here asking for one of us to steal from Norm for him?

That was a really long....sentence? And I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean.

So don't give them any more money, and get a good firewall from someone reputable. Or stop fooling yourself and get a hardware firewall.

No, I'm pissed off that I've found copies of programs that _I_ have written being distributed by people who had no right to do so. There's no difference, ethically, between stealing software from a programmer, plans from Norm, or music from a musician. If you want to use it, pay for it. If you don't like the terms and conditions of the sale, don't buy it, and don't use it.
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only anal retentive bottom feeders bottom post!
You talk shit, bcause if time was money you wouldn't be wasting it posting your shit on rec.woodworking!
Find another kid to play in your sandbox!
wrote:

for
copyright. I

that
But
honest
happen
they
get
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There's a dash in anal-retentive, by the way.

Actually, I'm waiting for a build to finish at the moment. Not that you're my boss or anything.

Well, it's not like you're particularly an interesting turd to play with...
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First intelligent thing I've seen you say.
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how do you keep a troll busy!
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<<There's a dash in anal-retentive, by the way.>>
It's called a hyphen. Two of them ( -- ) would be a dash. Sorry. Just being anal. <g>
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"



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