Re: Doonesbury

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Put 'em to work. They earn money while in jail, and it's paid out when they're released if there have been no problems. Some of the money goes directly to their family if the family is on support. If there's a victim, a percentage, based on the severity of the crime, goes to the victim.

And every man is an island, right? Who's supporting the incarcerated's family while they're in the pokey? Oh, right - you and me.
You are a Jedi Master at cherry picking data and ignoring variables.
R
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"RicodJour" wrote in message

I like it. Sewing mail bags, stamping license plates, growing the food they eat makes sense too. Repaying victims is something that is addressed all too rarely.

He's pretty good at repeating urban myths and political propaganda as if it was documented fact too.
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Exactly so.

AMEN!
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On 2/17/2011 2:13 PM, Doug Miller wrote:

There is a sort of foundational problem with this though: It really gets in the way of the widespread instinct so many people have to tell everyone else what to do. (This thread being one prima facia example.)
It never ceases to amaze me that individuals that wouldn't think of sticking their noses into their neighbor's business, are only too happy to do exactly that when the means is indirect by use of their government.
There is some deeply twisted psychology that brings together the people that want to tell you what to eat, drink, smoke, snort, chew, or shoot, how to be married, how to be a parent, what to wear in a car or motorcycle, and of course, how to spend your money. As individuals, humans are pretty decent on the whole. In groups, they behave like obnoxious Nosey Parkers.
I rather like P.J. O'Rourke's quote on the matter -
"There are just two rules of governance in a free society: Mind your own business. Keep your hands to yourself."
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DGDevin wrote:

You are, of course, correct. Some drugs make it into the best of prisons.

Since my training, and to my regret, there are now more federal drug treatment centers. * Federal Prison Camp, Forrest City, AK * Federal Correctional Institution, Fort Dix, New Jersey * Federal Medical Center, Ft Worth and a few others.
If you need a specific cite, you can quote me.

How do you think someone in possession GOT to be in possession? Did the stuff miracle itself into his pocket?
In all likelihood, he bought it. With money stolen from somebody else. That stolen money or property is wealth taken out of the community.
Now you would probably argue that the money going to his dealer is put BACK into the community when the dealer blings up his teeth, but this sort of "broken window" economics, so beloved by Keynesians and Democrats, is a flaw of gigantic proportions.
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HeyBub wrote:

derivatives
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Did you read The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell? There was some interesting stuff in there about the broken window premise, but not directly about drug dealers and their teeth.
R
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"HeyBub" wrote in message

He bought it from an entrepreneur, which according to you means a Republican.

It's a safe bet that the vast majority of street drugs purchased in this country are not bought with stolen money, unless you count Wall St. stuffed suits buying nose candy with money from looted pension funds. If memory serves over half the people in this country have tried cannabis, for example, and it doesn't make sense that they all stole the money they used to buy their weed. Even addicts to really crippling drugs like meth and crack first have to drain their own resources before turning to crime. Don't you ever watch COPS, there is always some guy getting busted for dope crying that he's going to lose his job. In the past couple of decades I've had several friends who used various street drugs, and every one of them has been gainfully employed, so I have to think there are many millions more like that. Heroin or meth addicts are another matter of course.

It's no more taken out of the community than money that buys some Made In China product at Wal-Mart. The dealer is going to go buy himself a Big Mac and a sweater for his mom. Because as you know, most low-level dope dealers still live with their mothers. The boss will buy a big plasma screen and some spinner wheels for his Escalade--money is always moving.
http://freakonomicsbook.com/freakonomics/chapter-excerpts/chapter-3/
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"HeyBub" wrote in message

You have to watch out for those do-gooder Democrats like that leading proponent of the Broken Window Theory, Rudy Giuliani.
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"HeyBub" wrote in message

I have no problem with restoring rights to cons who have overwhelmingly demonstrated that they have reformed and walked the straight and narrow since being released. But an automatic restoration of the right to own guns simply because the guy hasn't been busted for five years doesn't work for me. I want to see pay stubs and glowing reports from his PO and lots of character references from respected members of the community (no politicians)--not just a lack of recent convictions.
People can clean up, I used to have a guy working for me who had been a full-on crack addict who had lost everything. He turned it around, he is sober and hard-working and is on good terms with his ex-wife and kids, works in a hospital today.
But there needs to be solid evidence of rehabilitation, not just an absence of recent arrests. People who choose to commit serious crimes have to justify our trusting them again, they put themselves in that situation.
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On 2/17/2011 12:44 PM, DGDevin wrote: > > > "HeyBub" wrote in message > > > >> I've painted with a broad brush on the above. Certainly there exist >> jurisdictions where some of the above sanctions do not apply, but >> nowhere are ALL the constraints missing. > >> It's a bad hat to be a felon. > > I have no problem with restoring rights to cons who have > overwhelmingly demonstrated that they have reformed and walked the > straight and narrow since being released. But an automatic > restoration of the right to own guns simply because the guy hasn't > been busted for five years doesn't work for me. I want to see pay > stubs and glowing reports from his PO and lots of character > references from respected members of the community (no > politicians)--not just a lack of recent convictions. > > People can clean up, I used to have a guy working for me who had > been a full-on crack addict who had lost everything. He turned it > around, he is sober and hard-working and is on good terms with his > ex-wife and kids, works in a hospital today. > > But there needs to be solid evidence of rehabilitation, not just an > absence of recent arrests. People who choose to commit serious > crimes have to justify our trusting them again, they put themselves > in that situation. >
+1
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All your opinions are contingent on anybody giving a rat's ass about your views. Nobody cares what you think, Devin. Nobody.
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"Robatoy" wrote in message

And yet here you are reading my posts and responding to them like an enraged teenage girl who didn't get asked to the prom. So at the very least *you* care. LOL.
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So in your twisted mind, if one reads one of your posts it automatically means the reader cares? Wow, what a disillusioned ego you have there, Devvy. THEN, out comes the one thing most fore-front on your mind: raging teen-age girls. Best you get that checked by a shrink before you do something illegal.
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"Robatoy" wrote in message

When somebody whose fingers I stepped on recently is still so pissed off that he follows me around in threads he otherwise hasn't participated in just to repeatedly hump my ankle, I think I'm justified in finding that amusing. And you are amusing, Robotboy, because you take such silly shit so seriously, you're so obviously out for petty revenge--how could that not be worth a laugh?
Hey, knock yourself out, better men than you have called me names and I'm still alive and kicking.
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Me taking YOU seriously? Don't flatter yourself... there's that ego again.
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A word of friendly advice.
Take the hook out of your mouth. Notice how many love to wind you up and then call you names You have better things to discuss here.
"DGDevin" wrote in message
When somebody whose fingers I stepped on recently is still so pissed off that he follows me around in threads he otherwise hasn't participated in just to repeatedly hump my ankle, I think I'm justified in finding that amusing. And you are amusing, Robotboy, because you take such silly shit so seriously, you're so obviously out for petty revenge--how could that not be worth a laugh?
Hey, knock yourself out, better men than you have called me names and I'm still alive and kicking.
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DGDevin wrote:

Rehabilitation of the offender is certainly one worthy goal. But restoring his rights, in the mind of some, flies in the face of another goal: deterrence.
If the would-be goblin thinks the worst that can happen is to (eventually?) return to his current state, that there is no long-term consequence, he might be persuaded to wear white before Memorial Day or some other affront to the sensibilities of normal folk.
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"HeyBub" wrote in message

If an ex-con has no possible way of working his way back to respectability then surely a powerful motivation for reform is being taken away. We're supposed to love the repentant sinner, remember?
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On 2/18/2011 3:03 PM, DGDevin said this:

return to his current state, that there is no long-term consequence, he might be persuaded to wear white before Memorial Day or some other affront to the sensibilities of normal folk.

then surely a powerful motivation for reform is being taken away. We're supposed to love the repentant sinner, remember?

We don't live in a theocracy, we live in a republic. Loving someone has nothing to do, one- way or the other - with public policy.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
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