Panel Edge Glue-ups Without Jointing?

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On 10/12/10 1:07 PM, Robatoy wrote:

If it's just a matter of setting the depth 1/8" up or down, I can do that and make a test cut to check it. I've also gotten pretty adept at running long stock over the router table, so that's not an issue. Funny, but this bit, with the exact offset of the outfeed fence, would function as a jointer as well.
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snipped-for-privacy@mikedrumsDOT.com says...

If you have it set correctly for the stock thickness then you should be able to alternate cutting from the front and back faces and have them mate perfectly without any shim required.
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On 10/12/10 2:06 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

I guess I'm picturing this correctly. However, with what Robo says about the top surface, that may not work out correctly. Of course, I'm not sure it would matter for wood... maybe it would. (pun)
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It is all about that top surface. Whatever happens to the bottom edge would be in variance to the thickness accuracy.
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Only if the thickness is in perfect increments of .125"
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I've always used just a saw cut, and check the gap before gluing by laying out the boards and trial fitting them. In the rare case that their is some adjustment needed (Saw blade is a WW2, so it is pretty rare) I use my 22 inch jointer to straighten that edge. (Jointer made by Stanley)
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I noticed on Amazon that there are several 10" Freud Glue line rip blades. Can you tell me which one you have had the good experiences with?
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I have the LM74R010 which is the 30 teeth, 12 degree hook, full kerf, 10" blade with the red "perma-shield" coating. I am extremely pleased with it.
As far as I can tell, the other Amazon blades are the thin kerf version and the industial version. The industrial is the one that isn't red. It has the "silver ice" non-stick coating, which I'm guessing accomplishes the same thing as the red blade, without the red. :-) The red version actually has "industrial" printed on it, too.
The thin kerf versions are for lower powered saws. If you have a contractor saw that is under 2hp or so, thin kerf would help you out. But if you have a cabinet or hybrid with a heavy duty motor, you'll want the full kerf for stability.
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snipped-for-privacy@mikedrumsDOT.com says...

WWII is a combination blade. I don't have one and have never felt the need so can't say whether it gives a finish better than any of the blades I do have, however I would not expect any combination blade to give a finish as good as a purpose made rip or crosscut blade doing rip or crosscut respectively.
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:53:22 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

I used to use the Freud rip and crosscut blades and they did a great job. But since I bought a Freud Fusion I don't switch blades very often - it's that good. But it's still not quite as good as the Freud rip blade. It seems to be better than the Freud crosscut blade. And I no longer use a plywood blade at all.
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I quit swapping blades when I bought a WWII. I get a cut when ripping normal thickness stock that is shiney smooth with out tooth marks. You might be able to get a better cut from another blade buty what would be the point. As it is the edge does not have to be sanded for appearance sake. Now if you are going to be ripping THICK stock you might opt for a rip blade. 10+ years and I only use a rip blade for ripping 2x4's.
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On 10/11/10 10:27 PM, in article i90h27$faf$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org,

It wasn't me, but I do glue ups with edges directly from the table saw. What it requires is a good blade (Forrest WWII for me) and careful alignment of the saw.
Note that you do need a good straight edge to run against the saw fence. A jointer can be helpful in getting that starting point. You can achieve the same thing with a sled that holds the board straight for the initial cut, but that takes a bit of work to set up. Or you can go back to hand tools and use a plane.
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On 10/11/2010 9:27 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

I do it all the time with a Forrest Woodworker II mounted in my finely tuned Unisaw, and never think twice about it.
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I only use the TS and had a jointer for about 25 years. I never used the jointer, so to speak and got rid of it about 6 months ago.
IMHO for the most part it is hard to run an 8' board through common sized jointers. If my board is not straight I use a sled to straighten the edge on my TS. Typically my TS edges come out better than they ever did from my jointer.
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Perfect boards, no drying stresses, sharp rip blade, saw tuned, blade parallel to fence? Then expect a good time & a good glue line without jointing. Reality: Rarely are any 2 sticks parallel along their edges after sawing. As stress is released the work goes its own way (always out of parallel) & chatters against the blade no matter what the quality of the blade may be. Perfect edges essential? Then joint. In fact & moreover, given FAS, no sawing is required for a panel assembly! Joint all edges (after flattening & thicknessing), select best figure & color, line 'em up, glue, then rip the panel to width. Router Woodworking: http://www.patwarner.com *****************************************************

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I have to say that I find this whole thread surprising. I've never used a jointer for glue up edges. The thought that you might need one for every cut...
For the OP, here's a suggestion (and I know I'm going to get flamed for it, but it's true...) -- you mentioned the length of your cuts which makes me think you may have an issue with support for long pieces on your table saw, which may be leading to some of your problems. For really long and accurate cuts, I actually end up using my circular saw and jig... I support my piece on a couple sheets of MDF, which is suspended above the ground by some 2x4's. I clamp on my jig,and make the cut. Because my jig is made from MDF as well, I know the cut will be perfectly straight. So long as it's clamped to the cut piece securely, and I'm careful to hold the saw properly, I can make multiple repeated cuts, that are, quite frankly, dead on. With a good blade, the cut is perfectly smooth (within .1mm I'm sure).
If the board warps as the previous poster mentioned, you can simply use clamps to compensate while gluing up. Once the glue dries, it shouldn't be an issue.
(and let the flames begin...)
John
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On 10/12/10 11:03 AM, John wrote:

I actually mentioned that I do have a long outfeed table. There are no problems. I'm asking because I now *have* good equipment and don't want to take extra, unnecessary, steps, if the saw will do the trick, alone.

That's the technique I used before I had a good table saw. I still have the jigs for cutting panels on site, when I don't have a table saw, or for rough cutting panels my little shop.
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Perfect boards, no drying stresses, sharp rip blade, saw tuned, blade parallel to fence? Then expect a good time & a good glue line without jointing. Reality: Rarely are any 2 sticks parallel along their edges after sawing. As stress is released the work goes its own way (always out of parallel) & chatters against the blade no matter what the quality of the blade may be. Perfect edges essential? Then joint.
I am not quite sure why the mention of 2 sticks not being parallel after sawing would be of any matter. Jointing will not aid in bringing board edges parallel either. Board edges need not be parallel to form a panel. Board edges only need to be straight, which a TS and a jointer will do. Granted a board may not remain straight after being cut on a TS but another trip through the TS on a sled, not unlike multiple passes through a jointer, will again recreate the straight edge.
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I think it's a unanimous verdict from the jury. Thanks guys.
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Not so fast. TruMatch router bit is the way to go for end-to-end panel glue-ups. IMHO. (Wavy bit) Once you get used to that system, nothing else will do.
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