Might want to check again.
Most utilities offer off peak programs since it is in their best interest.
Here in SoCal, off peak billing is available, especially to high energy users such as cement mills.
That's going on across the country, it reduces the need for meter readers.
Lew
You need fullhot water flow for a shower?
Lew
I replaced the hot water tank (NG), furnace and central air all in the last month. It was time. The water tank had a seeping leak, and the furnace was sadly out of date. The central air had an estimated Seer of around 6, (An old, but very reliable Coleman) so it had to go too. Why now? Well, tax incentives, one hell of a deal with the gas company (Free AC with furnace) and a rebate program to boot. I seriously looked into the tankless water heaters as they are devices which have always made a lot of sense to me--> heat the water as you use it. But not at those prices. The payback would have 55 years. Not to mention the amount of space AROUND the damn thing which I had to give up. They will come down in price, but by that time nurses will give me sponge baths along with my Pablum.
This whole incentive/rebate/tax-credit approach to helping the economy is appearing to help as some of the tax rebated include basic home renovations such as countertops *S*
"Robatoy" wrote
I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units... the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ... otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
The units I use need 12" of clearance above and below, and are about 20" high to start with.
I have a SketchUp file of an installation in the current project that I would post, but you it would probably scare you to death trying to figure out how to open it!
Let see a flow of 8 gallons per hour will give you a 40 degree rise with a tankless. The cost of the unit versus a 12 year 50 gallon unit. For me the math does not add up. But then again here in this home we will replace the AC/furnace and hot water heater with geothermal. All I am saying is do your homework before you let someone talk you into a tankless water heater.
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
Geez, will the glass cover over the electric meter contain the spinning wheel if it blew a bearing during a long hot shower? LOL
LOL Oh he'd need a more powerful puter for sure. ;~)
Markem wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
We have a tankless electric hot water heater out in the back building. Except for the problem of having to open the water all the way initially to get it to kick on, it's great for running the sink.
Tankless units might not be good for whole house purposes yet, but for point-of-use water heating they're well worth looking in to.
Puckdropper
LOL... didn't you drop 500 US greenbacks just so you can export a drawing in a proper format to the rest of the civilized world?
If I can do a radiosity rendering on a complex model, I think I might have enough juice to open up a sketch in crayon. =3D0)
Just for funzies, checked a tankless web site.
Chose GE strictly at random since I didn't even know they were in the business.
Picked a natural gas indoor unit.
Specs indicate that at 4.36 GPM, the rise is 77F.
That is a long way from your specs.
SFWIW, across the country, year around, city water supplies deliver
50F-55F water from their underground pipes. 50F + 77F = 122F, which is a comfortable shower, at least for me. 4.36 GPM is a lot of water for a shower.Might want to recheck your data.
BTW, price is a whole nother issue
Lew
Practical in use data from my uncle who has his plumbing business in Chicago area. GE data is from they're lab, in the field they did not perform as promised has been the experience. A 77 f rise required a flow of 2 gallon per hour or less. At $1500 per unit and a payback of
50 years it does not add up. You can buy into GEs data but they have an agenda (ie selling the things).Mark
Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
Why not solar?
Texas is like saying the North East of the US.
East Texas is covered about 6 months of the year in fog or cloud. West Texas is sunny for 300+ days. South Texas is likely 6 months again.
We get clouds from Canada, Gulf coast region, Pacific south of Hawaii. Fronts push stuff here from Colorado or North Dakota.
Sad state of things. Rats really.
Mart> Sw>
Hmm - the only solar water heater I ever built was when I lived in the Hudson River valley about 60 miles or so north of NYC. I took it out to test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt like blazes and took weeks to heal.
Something's wrong. Methinks I need to build another one and take it to southeastern Texas for a bit of testing...
Clouds should slow 'em down, but not by enough to have folks taking cold showers.
Which reminds me, Robatoy's little shop "firnace" should be in the process of shutting itself down about now. Have you noticed a drop in output over past week or two, Rob?
I think it's an easily solved problem - and from the numbers I've seen tossed out in this thread, worth solving.
Digressing again, I received an e-mail with a video from a couple of young guys in Pakistan who liked one of the solar engines they saw on my web site well enough to try building one their own. Theirs isn't solar-powered yet, but might be interesting to folks in sunny areas who have a use for irrigation pumps. There's a photo and two short videos at
If I can do a radiosity rendering on a complex model, I think I might have enough juice to open up a sketch in crayon. =0)
Well you should be able to get SU to work too huh? ;~) All that power.
I know, I know. LOL
The solar craze went through Houston in the early 80's and it sucked. It literally cost more than it saved. And yes it was solar in its infancy. I have heard that there is a new community on the NE side of Houston that is using solar roofs and the community was about 25% dependent on pole electricity, or so they claimed. I have not heard much lately about it however.
Output has dropped. For one reason, the units are under an overhang.
The unexpected time I really noticed their effectiveness, was when I wasn't even in the shop on some weekends. I'd turn the thermostat down to 8C, walked in one Sunday afternoon to pick up a few things and the shop was 10C, whilst the outside temp was around 2C. Now, by no means is 10C comfortable, it got there without my furnace.
At every opportunity, and please, keep doing so.
I know what you're talking about. A lot of the early solar stuff wasn't very well designed or built and, sadly, too many of the current products are just copies of the old stuff.
It's just about impossible to make a good economic case for PV-generated electricity for anywhere except remote off-grid areas.
OTOH, solar heat for either space heating and/or water heating is hugely more efficient and can be a real cost saver for a substantial fraction of residences and a smaller fraction (but still significant number) of small businesses.
That'll certainly have an effect. :)
Hmm - I dunno if that's really a good test, since at least some of the heat must have been residual (stored in the slab, tools, solid surface stock, etc).
Now if you'd put in a trio of 8-foot panels, instead of that lonely
4-footer, and the temperature had been close to 23C... then you'd have had a more credible test. ;)HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.