OT- Small - Automatic - Generators...?

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Howdy,
Yes, this is OT, but you folks seem to know everything...<g>
I need to get an automatic backup generator, but my needs are unusual:
The fully automatic units I can locate are all in the range of 7000KW.
I need something on the order of 5-10KW. So, compared to the "standard" residential backup unit, the one I am looking for is really tiny. But, anything over that (approximate) capacity would just be money wasted.
Might any of you suggest sources for such a small (but fully automatic) generator?
Very sincere thanks,
--
Kenneth

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Kenneth wrote:

Home Depot?
Try http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Default.aspx
7000 KW wouldn't be a residential unit, it would supply 200 amp service to more than 100 houses.

--
--
--John
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Kenneth wrote:

7000 KW!!!???
The one's I've seen are in the 7 KW range.
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Products/Residential/Guardian/GUARDIAN7kW.aspx
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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wrote:

Hi again,
Indeed, my numbers were all screwed up... 'sorry.
I need to drive only a sump pump, and a small fan in a direct vent gas heater. The units I have seen are in the 7KW range, and I need a small fraction of that.
Thanks to all for your comments,
--
Kenneth

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[snip]
[snip]
Seems to fit -- I'm not sure I see the problem here... <g>

If all you really need to power is a sump pump and a small fan, then an automatic backup unit seems to be overkill; is there a reason you can't use, say, a 1500-watt portable generator?
Consider a sump pump with an alternative power source, too, such as Basement Watchdog or Ace in the Hole.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:06:14 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Hi Doug,
I could use a small generator... In fact, I have, but...
We travel a fair amount, and living in rural New Hampshire, outages are not all that rare.
We would be in trouble if we had an outage while we were away.
Beyond that, the standard "battery backup" units for the sump pump seem to have a run time on the order of 15-20 hours and I recall an ice storm in which we lost power for more than 96 hours.
Thanks for your thoughts,
--
Kenneth

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"Kenneth" wrote

To borrow from the endless threads on rebuilding battery packs for tools, why couldn't you extend the on time of the sump pump with additional battery packs?
In fact I knew somebody who used deep discharge marine batteries for something like this. He got the batteries from a charter fishing service who used them for trolling motors.
Just an idea. I am not sure how practical it would be in your situation.
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"Kenneth" wrote

Further threads provided additional info RE: Application.
Years ago, we sold a mini SCADA unit designed spefifically for this type application.
You would monitor the incoming power.
If it would fail, a contact would close, then call you and announce the power was out.
It could also close a contact to electrically start a generator.
Found a lot a application in Canada for monitoring telecommunication facilities out in the boonies that were only accessible by helo in the winter.
This is at least 20 year old technology and had about a $3K cost back then.
Today, the net will have revolutionized SCADA systems.
Try a Google for SCADA and see if small systems are still offered.
Lew
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Kenneth,
I wonder if a solar or wind powered charger would be sufficient for the battery backup on the sump pump. 15-20 hours is quite good by itself, then add to that changing from solar power during the day...should be enough to keep the sump pump running intermittely for a long time.
JAT
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Skip Williams wrote:

If his pump is cycling every 30 seconds and draws say 2 amps then that's a 110 watt load---if it's winter then triple that because the days are short and you've got 330 watts worth of collector required, plus losses due to various inefficiencies. Not considering air mass and average cloud cover at his location and suchlike, I'm pulling 500 watts out of my butt as a number. At the 8 bucks a watt that I'm seeing in various places, that's $4000 worth of collector alone, then you have to add inverter, batteries, etc.

--
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--John
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J. Clarke wrote:

If the sump pump is running almost continuously (cycling every 30 seconds), it's beginning to sound like his money might be better spent on a backhoe, gravel and drain pipe...
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Doug Winterburn wrote:

He said that he had seen times when that happened, and also times when he had had an outage for 96 hours--that makes for an engineering spec--has to run the pump at 50% duty cycle for 96 hours plus whatever margin one wants.
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--John
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I dont think Kenneth said his pump was recycling every 30 seconds..If it was, I would agree with the poster that said he needs to invest in a back hoe and some drain pipe.
He said his pump would last on backup batteries for 15-20 hours. My thinking is that would be increased three fold if the batteries were recharged using solar cells during the day.
IMOHO, I wouldnt trust a generator starting automtically and running while I was away if it was a critical application. Too many factors involved.
Skip
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Better than staying home all the time! A standby generator is often the best choice. Sure the genny could fail, shit happens sometimes. But then the sump pump could fail to. It gets to some point where you have to put some faith in something, or stay home 'cuz you are to paranoid up to leave! Greg
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Skip Williams wrote:

Quoting one of his posts:
"Hi Doug,
A battery backup and inverter is a possibility, but we have had outages as long as four days, and also have had situations in which our pump cycled on and off every thirty seconds or so for a week.
If those two situations were to coincide, I would need quite a pile of batteries to stay dry.
Sincere thanks, as before,
--
Kenneth"

Also he didn't say that his pump would last on backup batteries for
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Somebody wrote:

NBD
80W solar panels are less than $500.
T-105, 6VDC, golf cart batteries are less than $65.
A small inverter is less than $500.
Assume the sump pump requires 2A and operates on a 50% duty cycle which would require 240W/hour.
I use 50% efficiency of solar cells for estimating, thus (80W)50% 40W.
240W/40W = 6 panels or about $3,000.
T-105 are rated about 235AH.
If you cycle them between 70%-90%, they provide about 47AH/pair at 12VDC.
240W/47AH = 5 sets of batteries minimum, I'd probably use 6 sets or 12 batteries, thus (12)$65)=$780
Panels....................$3000 Batteries..................$800 Inverter....................$500 Misc hardware.........$500
Total......................$4800
Use $5000 as an estimate to achieve total independance from an unreliable supplier.
Lew
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Lew,
Plus the added advantage of "no moving parts' <g>
Less than he would spend on a auto start generator (yeah...right!), auto transfer switch, etc. that would all work flawlessly while he was away.
Me..I would gamble on the solar thing first<g>
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DUH >>>>>>>>>>>>> I Screwed up.
(2A)(120V)(50%) = 120Watts, not 240Watts.
Reduce equipment as required.

for
Actually: 120W/40W = 3 panels or about $1,500.

12
Actually:
120W/47AH = 3 sets of batteries minimum., thus (6)$65)=$390

Actually:
Panels...................$1,500 Batteries..................$400 Inverter....................$500 Misc hardware.........$300
Total.....................$2,700
Use $3,000 as an estimate to achieve total independance from an unreliable supplier.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

A 7 KW Guardian generator runs around $2,000.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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For that money, just to power a sump pump, I'd certainly go the route of a Guardian standby generator. You can buy one heck of a whole house generator for that kind of money. Keep a couple extra propane tanks around and switch tanks over every 50 hours of runtime. Enjoy life as usual. I feed my whole house on a simple 8,000 W gas generator, but it's not an automatic setup. The Guardians are really nice units. I've installed several of them and one of these days I'll put one in myself.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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