OT: need snake advice

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There are others who'll shake their tail at you. The snake's "twin" you've searched out isn't a rattler. I think. Tom
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"Jim Bailey" wrote in message

Quick way to tell if its poisonous (although you want to do this on a dead or otherwise incapacitated specimen) is to look at an eye. With the exception of the coral snake, which has red and yellow bands touching, all other poisonous snakes in the US will have a vertical slit for the pupil.
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"Swingman" wrote in message

We have Pine snakes that look like our Timber rattlers. They even coil and buzz there tail. Tried the eye thing but decided fast retreat was better choice :) When I go near my fire wood I wear them cow poke boots(Heavy sided ones). Ounce of prevention thing

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Good ideas from all. Tom made me think a little, so I researched a bit more and found this link. http://myfwc.com/viewing/species/snakesn.html
They describe the regular blacksnake babies as being slate grey with blotches, and shaking their tails when trapped, and often mistaken for rattlers. I know for a fact I've got a big blacksnake living around my neighbor's house because I see it every other day or so. I think I'll give it a few days, look around some more (carefully) before I jump to any conclusions. Meanwhile the dog can poop on the other side of the yard :)
Thanks to all.

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"Jim Bailey" wrote:

If in fact it is a black snake, they are known to keep the rat population under control.
Black sankes are very useful.
Lew
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All snakes are useful. And, Mr. Cox, it's not a bad idea to treat a baby rattler with a little more respect than you might a mature one. The "folk wisdom" (I know, I know) talks about the babies not knowing the difference between a casual encounter with a non-threat like cat, dog or what have you, and a real threat. So they just give _all_ the venom that they're born with. An older, wiser rattler is more likely to give a dry bite, and that does the job at hand. At least it worked on my cat that way. He was bitten in the face, twice, over a two year period, and it was probably the same snake. Yep, Clem's a little smarter now. A little, anyway. Tom
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Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 9:39pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@msn.com (tom) doth sayeth: <snip> An older, wiser rattler is more likely to give a dry bite, and that does the job at hand. <snip>
I don't think so. They bite, venom comes out - usually. They can espend all their venom, so none is available until more is generated. Or, a fang(s) can go thru flesh, ear, whatever, and the venom be ejected outside the flesh, instead of in it. I also understand that rattlesnakes (dont know if this applies to other sanakes or not) sometimes get an infection or something in a fang that wo't allow the fang to eject venon. Plenty of reasons you cat could survive, but a snake purpsly holding back venom is not on the list.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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(tom) doth sayeth:

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/factsheets/herps/masrat.htm
It is interesting to note that rattlesnakes can control the injection of venom when biting. Medical experts familiar with snake bites indicate that up to 60% of all snake bites to humans by poisonous snakes are "dry" bites containing no venom. Experts feel that the snakes may be voluntarily withholding the venom for use on prey and conserving it in some defense situations. However, these animals should always be treated with cautious respect.
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Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 3:14pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@nospam.stratus.com (charlie) doth posteth thusly: <snip> 60% of all snake bites to humans by poisonous snakes are "dry" bites containing no venom. Experts feel that the snakes may be voluntarily withholding the venom for use on prey and conserving it in some defense situations. <snip>
Damn, it must be really great to be an "expert", and know all there is to know about something. I also notice the weasel word "feel" in that little squib. Any of them "esperts" felt confident enough to try it?
I love the German for rattlesnake, Klapperschlange. Years back I saw a video of an "expert" who was going to prove he could survive a Maussaga (i believe it was) rattlesnake bite, with NO medical assistance, only by his own efforts and one of those little snakebite kits. Well, it took him a few tries before the snake actually bit him. He must have been mistaken for prey, because he definitely got a dose of venom. He proceeded to use his little snakebite kit, with the little sharp blade, bournequit (?), snakebite treatment juice, and suction cups. And he died. LMAO The really funny part is the kit worked, but wasn't the miricle cure the guy thought it was, it merely extended his life expectency - he should have had real medical attention on top of that. If he had accepted the medical treatment, even hours after the bite, they figure he would have survived. In other cases the snakebite kit might actually save a life, even without proper medical treatment - in this case I guess he really pissed the snake off enough to get a full shot.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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One of those things thats useful to know afterwards. Beforehand, I can just see some know-it-all saying "Don't worry, 60% of bites have no venom", just before he joins the other 40%.
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And rattle snakes are vegetarians? One of the reasons I don't kill snakes is because the are very good at keeping the rat and mouse population down. I do move the venomous ones deeper into the woods but its more to protect the dogs than me.
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:36:19 GMT, no spam wrote:

I assume you are being facetious. All snakes are carnivorous.
A small snake in Florida is likely going after small mammals, and perhaps lizards. A black racer certainly will take lizards.
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My point was all snakes are good for rodent control. There are very few non-venomous North American snakes can handle a full grown, i.e. breeding sized, rat. By wiping out your venomous snake population you are most likely going to have fewer mice but more rats.
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:05:25 GMT, no spam wrote:

My point is that your point is incorrect. Many North American snakes don't eat rodents.

Few, venomous or non-venomous. The only rattlesnake that gets big enough for that is the Eastern Diamondback. The only non-venomous that get that big regularly are the Black Rat, Everglades Rat, and the Indigo. The Eastern Pine and Bull can get big enough, but rarely.
I have several snakes in my collection that do well with a "medium" rat.

Huh?
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I used to keep rats as pets as well as grew up on a farm where trapping (poisoning, shooting, etc.) rats was one of the jobs. I can tell you that your "medium" feeder rat is just about as big as a wild rat will get. Taking a wild rat that was as big as even my adult female whites was unusual.

Given two snakes of the same size the venomous one will get more of the larger meals because he will have fewer get away. Therefore when you have fewer venomous snakes around more rats will get away. Also the snakes seem to know this and don't try for rats but go for the smaller but more sure meal of mice.
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:20:31 GMT, no spam wrote:

You've never been to NYC, then, have you? 8-)

Sounds like folklore to me. It is very, very rare that a prey animal would escape the strike of either a venomous or non-venomous snake. And in the case of the non-venomous snake, escape after that is even more rare. Snakes are extremely efficient predators.
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Personally, I'd be VERY happy with that trade off... Got a house full of cats to handle mice and rats but would rather they don't mess with rattlers..
mac
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Snakes will move on to other places if there is no food source. Remove the food source...
Small snakes - Bugs.
Large snakes - rodents, etc.
Otherwise, consider them scenery and don't touch.
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:01:16 GMT, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Not always. Some snakes, like garter snakes and ribbon snakes, will take insects. Some snakes eat fish and slugs.
But rattlesnakes prey primarily on mammals. The heat-sensing pits in front of their eyes (the reason they are called pit vipers) help them locate warm-blooded prey. In the OP's area (Florida), the young rattler can find plenty of small mammals.

Mostly true of North American species, but there are exceptions.

Certainly good advice. Best for the snake and for you.
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Jim.. Along with the other info here, I'd add food source..
We never had much in the way of snakes or varmints here in our area of Baja until our neighbor put up a bunch of bird feeders... He has his own ecology over there now, spilling into our lot.
The bird seed attracted chip monks or ground squirrels, the birds eating the feed attracted bigger varmints, the ground squirrels attracted snakes, etc...

mac
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