OT:Letter to Southern Califonia newspaper that was not printed

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You're wrong. To them, it's a fight to take over the world and destroy other cultures and religions.
They don't want to be left alone by Israel, they want to destroy Israel and kill every living Jew.
They don't want to accomodate or be accomodated by the West, they want to destroy what we've built, our civilization, and replace it with what the Taliban accomplished in Afghanistan.
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Like I said, they're fighting for their souls.
They want to destroy Israel and the west, we want to destroy them. Depending on where you live, one side is right.
The west wants the rest of the world to march in lock step with GW Bush's idea of freedom and democracy, based on freeing up as many of the earth's resources for use by the U.S. as possible while stopping others from having access to them.
The radical Islamists want a world that follows in lock step with their religious beliefs.
Nothing I've written contradicts any of that.
It's the context that seems to be lost, we in the west seem to feel that we have some sort of mandate to inflict our beliefs on others while condemning those who would do the same. The end result is the same, deaths of innocent people who want to be left alone to tend to their own.
I say lets all stop trying to tell the other folks what to do and see what happens, it's the only thing that hasn't been tried. Sooner or later, the people are gonna decide to stop killing one another for politicians. Til then, we're all complicit in this nonsense.
John E.
wrote:

understand
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wrote:

OK, where do *you* live?
Again, the above "moral equivalency" viewpoint just borders on the absurd. "we want to destroy them?" No, we want to prevent them from destroying us; our's is a "live and let live" philosophy, it's when others do impolite things like using airplanes as missiles to bring down skyscrapers or send their own children into other countries with bombs strapped to themselves to kill civlians that we tend to get a bit riled.

"It's all Bush's fault" I'm frankly growing somewhat tired of that silly old saw. IIRC, Bush wasn't in office when the World Trade Center was first bombed, nor when the USS Cole was attacked, nor when the Kobar towers came down. Dang! Those radicals were prescient, weren't they? ... and where in the world has anyone *ever* said that the US wants to prevent others from using earth's resources (except, of course for those in the US environmental movement who would just as soon have all of us living in mud huts and living as subsistence farmers while the bulk of the US was set aside as some western Serengeti)?

OK, so, which side are you on? You (or your descendants) don't get to be neutral in this. If the policies you advocate result in a radical Islamic middle-east, a radical Islamic Europe, and encroachment of radical Islam into the US and other western countries, you are going to have to take a stand -- neutrality will be counted by the radical Islamists as the equivalent of an infidel.

You know, I just don't see that "inflict our beliefs on others" in western culture, at least not since the Inquisition was shown to be such a bad idea. Share our beliefs, yes --- inflict them, no, unless by that you mean by that stopping others from attacking and killing innocents in other countries is somehow inflicting our beliefs on others. or maybe you are espousing the opinion that killing innocent civilians is a bad thing is simply a cultural affectation of our own culture and we should not impose that on more blood-thirsty cultures who view inflicting such punishment on others as perfectly legitimate.

hmmm, seems that's been tried in the middle-east and other places numerous times. Hasn't generally worked out too well. That bit of nastiness that took place in the early 40's was a direct result of not trying to tell a certain couple of European dictators what to do. Seems that every time Israel has attempted to take a live and let live policy, even to the point of giving up land for peace, the land given up winds up being used to stage new attacks on Israel. Leaving Afghanastan alone with the Taliban, well, that didn't turn out too well either.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Well said.
Al
wrote:

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John Emmons wrote:

You are an idiot. If there was any hope of helping you'd see the light, I'd make a longer post, but I think its hopeless.
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There's nothing quite so amusing as a zealot who can't bring themselves to even consider that there might be another way of seeing the world other than thru their own, myopic lenses.
I see "the light" quite fine thanks, if only those of you who think you've got all the answers did as well. I fear instead that you've been blinded by it.
When the situation is hopeless, there's really nothing to worry about.
John E.

Depending
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:13:28 -0600, Dave Balderstone

You mean like corporate America? Could you really say that the end intention of companies like WalMart, McDonald's and Coca Cola isn't to corner the global market on their ever-expanding niches and replace the local cultures with a homgenized general pop culture? It's a whole lot easier to make 6 billion of the same crappy widget than it is to research every distinct cultural identity and tailor their pruduct lines. (That isn't to say that doesn't happen, but it's done with roughly the same ethic used to put mom and pop shops out of business with super low prices, and then jack them back up when there is no longer an alternative.)

See above. We (not you or I individually, but the West as a whole) are trying to do the same thing to them. Our government(s) will never be happy until everyone on the planet is wearing Levi Jeans and watching MTV while sipping Coke and eating Doritos. I say we just let the people elsewhere just do what they think they need to do, and stop sticking CEO fingers in their pies. Of course by now, it's getting to be a little late in the game to pack up our toys and go home.
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If you can honestly equate 16 year olds with explosives strapped to their waists blowing themselves up in buses filled with innocent women and children to selling people Coke and Levis, then I feel very, very sorry for you, believe you have a mental disease of some kind, and no longer wish to converse with you in any form.
Good bye.
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On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:20:14 -0600, Dave Balderstone

Yep.
Get 'er dun, fella.
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Israel is, of course, entirely justified in defending itself. The world gets upset, however, when it uses its *army* to do this.
My own opinion is that it's time to support Israel in DESTROYING Hezbollah. Completely and utterly.
The Arab/Muslim world understands humiliation and defeat. It does not negotiate in good faith, nor does it feel it has to. The Koran allows, nay demands, lies and deception when dealing with infidels.
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Do the John Emmons's of the world, with their ideas of moral equivalency ever follow the news? There are certain inflection points in most conflicts where it's painfully obvious which side is right and which side is wrong.
Look at events in the middle east over recent years. For decades Israel tried to negotiate with Arafat to reach some kind of accord where Israel and the Palestinians could coexist. In keeping with the "Can't we all get along?" approach, during the Clinton administration, Arafat was at the White House more frequently than any other head of state. Despite the best efforts of Clinton and enticements of huge amounts of aid to the Palestinians, no agreement could be reached, despite every attempt to be reasonable with Arafat.
So, a couple years ago, Sharon finally decides to unilaterally give the Palestinians much of what they could have had decades ago, had they been willing to negotiate in good faith. He dismantles settlements on the West Bank and returns Gaza to Palestinian control, a good first step. What is the reaction from the Palestinians? Do they now do something positive to meet Israel half way? No, they elect Hamas, a terrorist organization with the stated goal of destroying Israel to be their new govt.
Let's look at Lebanon. Israel occupied souther Lebanon in the early 80's because it was being used as a staging area to attack Israeil There were a UN resolutions calling for Israel to withdraw and for Lebanon's military to assert control of southern Lebanon. Israel withdrew from Lebanon 6 years ago, but Lebanon never took control of southern Lebanon and knowingly allowed Hezbollah to use it as a staging area. Hezbollah was formed two decades ago with the alleged purpose of driving Israel out of Lebanaon. Israel has been out of Lebanon for 6 years, giving Hezbollah exactly what they wanted, yet now Hezbollah starts launching thousands of rockets from Lebanon into Israel.
The above is enough for any fair minded person to conclude which side is reasonable and really seeking peace and which side is totally unreasonable and hell bent on continuing the violence at any cost.
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"Civilized" war is just war fought by rules invented to make the bigger guy win. If you fight by his rules you are guaranteed to lose.
--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
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The West has been hopelessly floundering around in the area since the earliest days of "colonizing" the area. Nothin' to indicate anyone in the West has any better understanding of what is happening there than in the past.
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A bit more complicated than that, but it's a decent nickle tour. The poliitical division of the entire area after the fall of the Ottomans was a complete cluster-fuck and certainly set the stage for the mess the region is today. The meddling after the fact was largely driven by the cold war and the west's battle against Soviet communism with oil at the center.
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Graham Walters wrote:

I saw the movie "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson. Based on historical accounts it was.
Some of the British were just plain impolite, killing American wounded and so forth. Shame on them.
Still, we must give each its due. There was a time, not so very long ago, when every tolling of the hour by Big Ben meant that, somewhere in the world, the British Ensign was being raised at dawn.
Now, with every tick of the atomic clock at the National Bureau of Standards, Microsoft Windows is booting up a computer (some for the eighth time that day).
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That person would be... youself, I'm afraid.

Obviously your mind is already made up, and there's no sense confusing you with anything so mundane as actual facts.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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He's a Brit. Why worry about it? They still think that they gave us this country. They also think they saved us during WW 2. There's no end to their delusions. I do believe that they invented revisionist history.
wrote:

history.
about.
any
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And they invented the wheel and airplane, and were the first humans as the Piltdown man proved ;)
--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
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Doug Miller wrote:

He should also check the Brit record during the Boer war where Tommy machine gunned civilians, and penned survivors so closely without medical treatment or food or sanitation that thousands died. But, hey, what the hell, those damned Boers wanted to keep their own company instead of turning it over to businessmen for diamond mining and similar purposes.
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Doug Miller wrote:

He should also check the Brit record during the Boer war where Tommy machine gunned civilians, and penned survivors so closely without medical treatment or food or sanitation that thousands died. But, hey, what the hell, those damned Boers wanted to keep their own country instead of turning it over to businessmen for diamond mining and similar purposes.
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