On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:00:44 +0100, "Graham Walters"
Okay, Senator McCarthy- I thought that old invective went out quite a
while ago. It was a war, people got killed- many of them for nothing
more than refusing to go along with the revolutionaries. I don't see
that acknowledging the existance of collateral damage has anything to
do with communism. If anything, following the party line by closing
one's eyes and ears and humming propoganda is the communist ethic- not
the skepticism that is the bedrock of any society that intends to
remain free. If we whitewash the founders and put their sepia-toned
portraits on our walls with the idea that they were infallable
supermen, we simply prepare ourselves to be made into tools of any
criminal with the ability to spout chapter and verse at us. Always
question everything- and stop listening to that retarded jingoist
country music, for god's sake. It's embarassing, especially when our
current government seems dead set on turning the entire planet into an
endless procession of smoking ruins alternating with strip malls and
They do- but not in third grade social studies. I'd imagine things
are pretty much the same everywhere, people hear what they are
interested in, and tune out the rest.
Well, I won't argue that we're getting premium straight information in
the US, but it would stand to reason in my mind that the first US
president was G. Washington, for the same reason that our primary
legal document is the US Constitution, and not the Magna Carta.
Whomever controlled the US under the Articles of Confederation is
largely irrelevent, as they were drafted as a temporary form of
government that was discarded in favor of the Constitution. When the
Articles were replaced by the Constitution, it was a radical enough
change to argue that the modern US began as a country when the
Constitution was ratified- where it had simply been a loose alliance
of rebellious colonies before that time.
While it's always interesting to know how things got to be the way
they are today, that does not make obscure historical claims a basis
for denying the validity of the longest lived government on the face
of the planet. You may as well demand that the US be returned to
England because with the advent of modern telecommunications, the
founders' argument that the colonies existed in a "state of nature"
due to the extreme lengths of time required for communication with the
ruling government is no longer valid, and it's time to toss the whole
deal in the trash and come back into mother England's fold.
There are thousands of books published in the US about the founding
fathers, and most of them do not sugar coat the events surrounding the
revolution- believe it or not, our press is still free enough to point
out the embarassing personality flaws and outright hypocracy of many
of those grand old patriarchs, as well as go into horrendously minute
detail about every signifigant event of every meeting and public
action during that time period. They took good records, and all that
information is still floating around- but not one that I have
encountered (and I've read a lot of them) has the poor sense to claim
that the elected representatives under the Articles of Confederation
were members of the modern US government. Go ahead and believe what
you like, but it was not the same country under those two wildly
different sets of rules. It's even arguable that the US is not the
same country is was prior to the Civil war, when so many things
changed that the old system hardly resembles the current one.
Anyway- I'm done now. By all means, hash it around a bit- but you're
falling into an obscure side road that dead-ended over 200 years ago.
Hardly the basis for a sensible discussion about anything except that
one short period of time. Now if you want to bash the US propoganda
machine, there are any number of more contemporary examples around-
including the "commie pinko bedwetter" nonsense that was at the head
of this post. (Yes, I am aware that you were not the one who posted
that, but I deleted the header on that bit by accident)
Actually, if you count presidents of the Continental Congress, which is what
he was, there being no nation called the "United States" until after
adoption of the Constitution, then John Hanson was the _third_.
So if some random netloon can't get a thing like that right what chance is
there that any other information he provides is correct?
Why is it that someone who makes a great show of his own ignorance then
comments on others "resorting to namecalling"?
John Hanson was the First President of the Continental
Congress of the United States of America. George Washington
was the First President of the Untied States of America.
The President of the Continental Congress had no executive
authority outside of that body. They was not at all the same office,
despite the similarity of title.
Now you've gone from reasoning to invective. Shame. No, the founding fathers
were not terrorists. Yes, there were instances of "terrorist" mobs
assaulting citizens who disagreed with them - on both sides. It has been
pointed out by historians that the only reason the American revolution did
not have a "reign of terror" like the French, British, and Russian
revolutions was that our population was too small and too dispersed to
support the kind of mass hysteria required.
I agree with you, and the original poster, on the immigration issue. One
point, however, was left out. When the earlier waves of immigration arrived,
we were underpopulated. Now we're overpopulated.
It's turtles, all the way down
If the point of your directing me to a site for t-shirts was to imply that the
continent was fully populated before the Europeans arrived, you're the one
who's wrong. A few million (if that many) inhabitants does not constitute
But the site did have some neat t-shirts. If you're one of the owners, you're
Well if it against the AUP that's all good however something like this is
more acceptable to me then the posting of copywriten and or pirated software
that is seen so much on these things. Don't you agree?
No there is a comparison, Those are to illnesses that are terrible to deal
with however if you play you might end up paying. So back in the world of
News groups and internet where my comment was directed as to the subjects.
Freedom of speech in this country is a right, steeling someone else's
property is not acceptable in any country and in some cases the property
owner will shoot the crook with my regards, I hate thief's. As someone that
created a program to use at my last place of employment where as the owner
tried to claim they owned my software solely created at my home on my time.
This particular comment on my side hits very close to home, btw I have the
only copies of my software goto love FDISK on a system with all your
software on it! So free speech go for it, steeling forget it. It would
make someone wonder where someone else's moral boundaries are. You can do
what you want I know I have a clear conscious when it comes to this topic.
Once again pinions are like A@#wholes everyone has one including me!
Ok, you don't agree that chlamydia is better than gonorrhea,
though I am not clear as to why not.
I am quite sure that you understood the analogy and my reason
for presenting it so I will address your comments regarding theft.
USENET is not public. NNTP traffic is carried over both private
and public servers, bu tmostly it is carried over private networks.
USENET is organized into newsgroups by topic. The purpose being
that when people read USENET they can chose the topic they
wish to read. People pay, directly or indirectly for USENET access
and reading UENET takes their time. Posting off topic is
Free Speech the same way that standing up in church to speak
on a topic of your chosing, woudl be free speech. My town
frequently hosts free public concerts in the town square. Once
a local character, starting speaking out during the concert. The
police arrived, and he quieted down. No arrest was made. But
plainly, even though he was speaking in a public place, his
right to free speech did not supercede the right of the rest of us
to quietly enjoy the scheduled activities.
Your right to speak freely on the internet is, to an extent,
superceded by my right to quietly enjoy the internet
access for which I paid. If you want to post a political rant,
fine, post it in a political rant newsgroup.
People who post off-topic, especially spammers like OP,
who spam USENET with ficticious political claptrap are
thieves. They steal the money and time of the USENET
readership. They only steal a little from each, but theft it
So basically you stating that one must obey the AUP but its ok to steal!...
Your awesome keep up the good work! As far as stealing your money or time
that's BS and you know it. Do you have filters? Then filter anyone or
thing you want. I do block people who post things that are copywritten or
vulgar as I don't want my grand kids to see them. I see you are not against
criminal acts just freedom of speech. What a guy! I am glad to have met
someone of your caliber it has made such an impact on our lives. As far as
posting in the proper ng hmmm rec.woodworking,alt.home.repair I just don't
see anything about allowing electronic piracy here. As for stating the
obvious you are definitely in one minds set and not willing to see that yet
they both may be posted in the wrong group speech and electronic piracy are
two different things. One is legal and a freedom we value the other is a
criminal offence and is punishable in most countries, whether they enforce
it to a great extent who knows. Obviously the right to steal is more
important to some then the right to freedom of speech.
No need to respond I am done with this childish rant. I know where I stand
being the more adult here I will stop because it's going no where. Some
people are just meant to be criminals I guess. lol to quote a man of
logic, "Live long and prosper".
This is off-topic for rec.woodworking and alt.home.repair so I've
set followups accrdingly. Or if you prefer, we can take this to email.
It appears that you lied when you wrote:
"So basically you stating that one must obey the AUP but its ok to
But, since it also appears that English is not your first language
perhaps you did not understand the article. I suggest you review it.
There are few things as offensive as lying about what someone
has said. I hope you were merely mistaken.
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