OT: How to Save Social Security

[Brian McAllister]

Greg, You are either very young or have a short memory. For about 60 years the Democrats kept telling us that we could spend our way into prosperity, that a certain amount of inflation was a good thing and that deficits don't matter because 'we owe it to ourselves.' That only changed when Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress of 1984 dragged Clinton, kicking and screaming to a balanced budget.

Remember that congress raises and spends all the money. There have been deficits for most of the past 70 years and the congress has had Democrat majorities for most of those years. The problem is that the current crop of Republicans are too timid to drastically cut programs that affect traditionally Democrat constituencies and feel that they have to add spending that affects what is perceived as their constituencies, thinking that will help keep them in office.

Meanwhile, both parties are empowering the government to engage in activities that are not permitted to it under the constitution, with the complicity and sometimes the encouragement and prodding of the courts.

Brian McAllister

Sarasota, Florida

email bkm at oldtech dot net [e-mail]

[G.E.R.R.Y.]

I would suggest that both of you try to get a copy of the award-winning dicumentary "The Corporation". In the documentary, they show how corporations achieved the almost untouchable status that they enjoy as legal entities (persons); how corporations as persons fulfill each and every criteria of clinical psychotics; and how their *primary* legal duty is to create wealth for their shareholders /even/ /to/ /the/ /exclusion/ /of/ /environmental/ /issues/.

I think then that you will see why

can *NEVER* happen.

Gerry

[xrongor]

everyone gets so up in arms when anyone mentions anything about 'stealing from the rich' in this country. i think its only fair to point out how MOST of them got that way. not ferrari rich mind you. im talking change federal law rich. applying the 'third grade' standard to most of these people, and its clear they have lied and cheated to get there. if they were third graders they would be standing in the corner. but because they're 'capitalists' we say its ok?

its not ok steven. no. the conservatives WANT everyone to go back to bed. so they can get back to their business as usual. selling water to a nation on fire.

randy

[Doug Miller]

You got caught spouting nonsense and drivel. Again. And immediately changed the subject. Again.

I'm disappointed. But not surprised.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[xrongor]

the total cost of the employee is factored into the price of the goods or services. same as the cost of the plastic, wood, glass, phones, advertising, business taxes, training, whatever. this cost is recovered when the business sells its goods or services.

businesses arent in business to sell the most stuff, they're in business to make the most money. they raise or lower their prices to maximize this number. you are implying the price is set on a whim. profit is a function of both sale price and overhead. taxes are just another type of overhead.

the money used to pay the business taxes, employee taxes, whatever taxes NEVER came from the business. businesses dont print money. nor do they create it out of thin air. it came from the person who bought the product from the business.

so to answer your question: what you say makes absolutely no sense to me.

randy

[Bob G.]

I would love to actually see the figures that both parties are looking at....(they have to be different)

AND

I would like to see the projections (wild ass guesses ) both parties are using for their projections....

Given this data...I still may not be able to state that SS is or is not headed for a crisis in (pick your own year here)

It is just that I can NOT FIND those figures.. therefor I have nothing to say on the subject....

GIVE US THE FIGURES.... let the people decide which set of figures is more truthful... Then pass a law ( aka ...joke) that directs the politicians to vote to will of the people not to vote as "my representive without knowing my opinion...

Bob Griffiths

[xrongor]

something stupid like trust your company and invest in enron for example? something stupid like the country goes to war, killing the economy and draining your pocketbook? oh i see, you have full control over everything.

but just in case, let me know if this happens. ill donate the free bullet to solve your problem since you offer no other alternatives.

oh if it were only so simple.

randy

[Steven Dinius]

Now I'm politically schizophrenic. Buy me a dollar hamburger!

HEE HAW!

[Steven Dinius]

I want a 6V6 GTA with good readings and advice on fixing a Bendix. I could give a flying fart about something I already have.

[Steven Dinius]

everything.

Donate a 6V6GTA so my Airline will have it's GT back and I can fix BOTH of them. Extremely simple.

[GregP]

Responding to the mythology you introduced into the thread is "changing the subject ?" So what's your role ? Are you one of those fundamentalists who is not responsible for his actions, they're always someone else's fault ? You are an astute student of our administration.

[Cmd Buzz Corey]

And businesses aren't in business just for the fun of it or just to give you a job, they are in business to make a profit, thus the business can stay in busines, keep giving you your job so you have the money to support your family, have the things you need and hopefully some of the things you want. Most businesses face competition and have to price their products to be competitive, so they may not be able to pay you that large salary you think you deserve, but pay according to what competition will allow so they can continue to make a profit, which allows them to continue to stay in business and continue to offer you a job. They don't raise or lower the price of their products at a whim, if they raise the price of their product at a whim just to get more profit, they will find the competition with a lower price gets the business. Competition drives the pricing of products, not whim. Taxes are part of the cost of doing business and of course taxes are a consideration in the pricing of a product. So what's wrong with that? A few years of no profit after taxes, then no business which means no job for you.

[Brian McAllister]

Social Security is, to a large extent, a transfer of money from black males to white females. A large percentage of black males do not live long enought to collect what they have paid in, while a large percentage of white females live long enough to collect very much more than is covered by what they have paid in.

The first social security recipient, a female, paid in $24, and received $42,000 in payments.

Brian McAllister

Sarasota, Florida

email bkm at oldtech dot net [e-mail]

[William Sommerwerck]

It was actually more like $22K. But that's a big return on a small investment. (The woman lived until 100, which was why she took out so much.)

[Uncle Peter]

And a lot of people went to their graves without collecting a dime.

I think that is the rare exception, rather the rule.

Pete

[hagstar]

This is the cruelest and most brazen trick the Bush machine is using. It is a "lies, damned lies, and statistics" thing. ON AVERAGE, black males don't seem to live long enough to collect enough S.S. benefits. This is quite wrong, though, as it is just a fluke of the statistics. Lots of YOUNG black males (who don't live long enough to pay much into the system anyway) die early, which pulls down the AVERAGE life expectancy of black males. But if he makes it to thirty, the average black male worker would collect nearly the same amount dollar wise and live nearly as long as the average white worker.

This "fact" resembles the story of putting one foot in ice water and the other in boiling water. Average skin temperature- comfortable, right?

[O D]

Has anyone ever heard how many times a year you can trade? How many stock, bonds will be avail. Hope you don't assume every member of the dow, nasd s&p will be avail to you. And what rate will you be paying to trade. ? Can you trade every day week month , or are you stuck into a drip type program, where they buy once a month . I don't have a problem with private accounts but have to wonder who will make the money. The old adage use to be and is still true today.... The ones who touch the money make money, not necessary the ones who own it. So until all and I mean ALL the rules are spelled out be careful what you wish for. And please the other old saying of buy and hold for a life time does not work any more. You have to be able to get in and out . These sharks on wall street are waiting for you. As for some other suggestion here on this subject, let congress get into SS and off the hog. And make congress have to balance a budget.

[Eddie Brimer]

john, where do you get stats that black males live as long as anyone else? don't forget...i sell life insurance? can't blame bush for everything.

[Doug Winterburn]

Errr, I'm no Wall St. slick, but my boss of about 25 years ago convinced me to invest 10% of gross pay into my own retirement - mutual funds, corporate bonds, some individual stocks - all with the help of a financial advisor. Yes, I had to watch the market and results and get out of a substantial market investment when I saw things going south (the Clinton downturn of 2000), and get back in when I saw things picking up - but all that was my responsibility for looking after myself rather than having the feds look out for me.

The net result - even after all the bubbles and bursts - is that I am now and have been officially retired. I invested 2.4% less than I paid into SS for at least 15 years less than I would have if I had worked until I was 65 am drawing about 4 times what I would if I were 65, and the principal is still growing! And this is all after I get to pay a 10% penalty for early withdrawal from my IRA's.

So, why do folks think they need government to make lousy investment decisions for their futures? It ain't rocket science - all it requires is staying with a plan and paying attention to details.

- Doug

BTW, I've been the same message my old boss gave to me to my kids and they're well on thier way to financial independence by 50 or younger.

[Steven and Gail Peterson]

Anyone who tells you they have heard about these issues is blowing smoke. No bill has been introduced, no hearings have been held. There is a lot of speculating and posturing going on, but nothing matters until these things happen.

Steve