OT dangerous dogs

[Dave Hinz]

He does, but I can be armed in say 30-45 seconds when I'm at home, so I'm OK with that delay.

[Mark & Juanita]

Probably more precisely statism: The idea that all benefits derive from the government and are dispensed or withdrawn at the whim and discretion of the government. In a statist government, there are no such things as "rights" and certainly not "inalienable rights". Everything is a privilege that can be given or taken away based upon expediency for the government. Fascism and communism are two instances of rampant statism.

One of the reasons that the "modern" idea of the constitution as a "living" document is so dangerous is that this approach promotes statism. The idea that the constitution means whatever is expedient at the time rather than what it states in clear language allows statist judges to make decisions based upon their feelings and beliefs, not upon what the constitution actually states as limits on the government.

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[Mark & Juanita]

Had an aunt whose family had one of those chihuahuas (or as Les Nesman used to say" Chi-hooa-hooas"). When I encountered it, it was pretty old, but still mean as all get out. The stupid thing would go out of its way to come up to you and bite you -- of course, as I said, it was old, so it had no teeth -- it pretty much would try to gum you to death. Just evil, evil little mutts. IMO of course.

I hate it when that happens

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[Lobby Dosser]

Urban or not, they should not run free. I've seen Lassie and Rinty pack up with FiFi and go after sheep and cattle. Domestic dogs running free will pack up and do a whole lot more damage than the neighbor's Rottie. Wild dogs - wolf, coyote, etc. - tend to avoid us, the domestics in a pack don't.

[Lew Hodgett]

RE: Subject

Way back when, would shoot any dog on my property and any cat more than

1/4 mile from my neighbor's barn.

Worked back then, probably still does.

SFWIW, watched a guy shoot a pair of Black and Tans he had just paid $500 for, because they chased rabbits.

Today that pair would probably cost $2,500, but the guy would still shoot them if they chased rabbits.

Lew

[Bob Martin]

I think you've lost it, Dave. I'm quite free to disagree with my (UK) government and neither I nor anyone I know owns a gun or is ever likely to.

[Bob Martin]

Isn't it strange that we need a licence or permission for all the trivial things in life yet anyone (even if drunk, mad, convicted murderer etc) can bring children into the world.

[Robert Allison]

So life and liberty are privileges, too? After all, they can be taken from you.

So all we have are privileges then, no rights at all. Hmmm...where is my copy of the Bill of Privileges?

[Larry Blanchard]

Three words were left out - "board of education" :-).

[Morris Dovey]

| in 1249707 20051118 191003 Dave Hinz wrote: || On 18 Nov 2005 07:27:17 -0800, Too_Many_Tools || wrote: ||| Exactly Alex....there are very few "true" rights. ||| Gun ownership is not one of them. || || It's the one that, if you live in the US, preserves the rest of || your || rights. How long do you think you'd be free to disagree with the || government if the citizens were disarmed? | | I think you've lost it, Dave. I'm quite free to disagree with my | (UK) government and neither I nor anyone I know owns a gun or is | ever likely to.

That's a tough argument to make to Americans, Bob. In the restored (British) Governor's Mansion in Colonial Williamsburg, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, the most prominent display was of *large* arrays of muzzle-loading rifles - to impress upon the colonists just who exercised the power to govern and by what means that governance would be enforced.

Neither the colonists nor their decendants have forgotten either how that power was abused nor what was required to to dismantle that misgovernance and to distribute its power among ordinary citizens.

We recognize fully that government /can/ be benevolent; but will remain so over the long term _only_ if the general citizenry are ready, willing, and *able* to say: "Thus far and no farther."

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Dave Hinz]

Yes, I didn't expect that a subject would understand. Guns aren't just to deter individual criminal acts, they also deter governmental criminal acts. Don't worry though, we'll bail you out yet again, next time.

[George Max]

Holy Cow! I think I'll stick with hounds. They're way more laid back.

[Morris Dovey]

| "Too_Many_Tools" wrote: | || As I have said before, a right can be denied is a privilege. || || Use a gun incorrectly and see how long your right remains intact. | | Cute semantic distinction, but I don't believe it is correct. What | exactly do you think falls in the category of "rights" as you define | the word? Some counter examples for you to ponder (at least making a | distinction between how you want the word to be defined and how | others use it) is the "certain inalienable rights" of life, | liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Since we routinely deny felons | of their liberty and pursuit of happiness, and occasionally of | their lives, I guess our forefathers should have said "certain | privileges" to meet your semantic benchmark?

Alex...

You're quoting from a document that set forth principles - not law. It's the Constitution that attempts to codify those principles and which clearly sets forth that keeping and bearing arms is a *right* which may not be impaired or discontinued (look up /infringe/).

The Declaration of Independence is an interesting legacy. It's more than an old "Up yours!" to King George: It's a statement of philosophy and principles. It's also a quiet trap for those individuals who feel that ordinary persons are unfit to share among themselves the powers of self-government.

The Declaration sets forth, as a matter of principle, conditions necessary and sufficient for replacement of an entire governmental system. Because of this, it's an "orphan" document and has never had legal standing of any kind - not with the Brits, and certainly not within the American government.

Notwithstanding, it's the biggest elephant to ever sit in any corner.

Oh yes, I did allude to a trap aspect didn't I? The trap lies in the obstacle posed to those who would abuse the powers granted them by the Constitution and the citizenry: In order to usurp power, they must first succeed in voiding the principles set forth in that simple one-page document. It's a "soft" trap; but it gives the alarm to every person who, in their heart of hearts, believes in those principles.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Doug Miller]

The part of this you're missing is that -- currently -- your government is willing to tolerate subjects who disagree with it. What would you do if that changed, and the authorities began to forcefully suppress dissent?

More to the point: what *could* you do?

[Mark & Juanita]

Having seen various reports regarding censure for what British citizens and businesses say; I would dispute that you are free to say what you want, when you want freely in Britain. Your rules regarding what is considered to be "harassing" speech or "offensive" speech -- particularly if one is a business are becoming quite restrictive (not that the statists here in the US are far behind in trying to make that happen -- try expressing principals of Jeffersonian democracy or calling into question some of the tenets of modern nanny-state protectionism on a college campus)

BTW, how are those restrictions on law abiding citizens working out over there? Has it kept the criminal element from being any more dangerous? I understand you've got somebody over there who is now seriously advocating restricting the ability to own pointy kitchen knives.

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[Morris Dovey]

| BTW, how are those restrictions on law abiding citizens working | out over there? Has it kept the criminal element from being any | more dangerous?

Last night the BBC reported that one female police "probationer" (trainee?) had been shot to death and another wounded in the shoulder by not-law-abiding persons. I'd assume that the answer to your questions are "questionably" and "no".

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Morris Dovey]

| "Morris Dovey" wrote: | || That's a tough argument to make to Americans, Bob. In the restored || (British) Governor's Mansion in Colonial Williamsburg, in the | | Seen elsewhere, but relevant to this discussion: | | BRITS REVOKE USA INDEPENDENCE | | A Message from John Cleese To the citizens of the United States of | America: | | In light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA | and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the | revocation of your independence, effective immediately. Her | Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties | over all states, commonwealths, and territories (excepting Kansas, | which she does not fancy).

Great humor! I would imagine that Mr. Cleese would be proud to have written it. :-)

Why wouldn't she like Kansas? Is she agoraphobic? (Seems unlikely.)

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Mark & Juanita]

Yep. Sarcasm is difficult to render in text-only systems. Various reports I've seen indicate that in many instances the criminal element is gaining the upper hand, particularly youth gangs who have no fear of private citizens protecting themselves and little to fear from the authorities since long periods of incarceration are considered "inhumane" and "unjust".

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[Buddy Matlosz]

How 'bout we do it TO the French? God knows they've been askin' for it.

B.

[Morris Dovey]

How so? They were a major help at the battle of Yorktown, they were an ally in two world wars and during the police action in Korea, they warned us about Indo-China, they shed tears with us on and after 9-11, and they did their best to tell us that our intelligence on Iraqi WMDS was incorrect so that we would not make ourselves look like liars and/or idiots to the rest of the world.

What have you noticed that I missed? Or does all of the above constitute "askin' for it"?

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA