OT dangerous dogs

Page 5 of 10  


You would rather than an armed criminal be safe, and that a homeowner be in danger?
Whose side are you on, Bob?

Yes, yes, we've heard that argument here too. When Florida was (one of?) the first state to pass laws where law-abiding citizens could carry concealed weapons, the hue and cry was mighty, about how "blood will run in the streets", "the Gunshine State" and all that. Not surprisingly (to me), when non-criminals were allowed to arm themselves, the criminals found other things to do. Violent crime went down in Florida, just as it has gone down in _every other state_ with CCW laws.
Oh - and I've driven in England. I found the drivers to be pretty good, especially in the "be in the proper lane on the motorway, depending on your speed". I think that maybe your assumption that your contrymen can't be trusted with deadly force, is unfair. A car, after all, is deadly force. If they're not ramming each other on the M25, they probably wouldn't be shooting each other, either.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave Hinz wrote:

...

...

Me too...especially as compared to...oh, say Hotlanta as only one example...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Some years ago when Florida and a number of other states passed carry laws many people got the impression that that was some kind of first. Near as I know, it has always been legal in Alaska, Arizona and I'm sure other states. I know from first hand experience that carry licenses have always been available in Washington. I've had a CCW for 24 years. I've never had a need to use it nor has anyone I know. It would seem that the people with the CCW are less likely to get into a bad situation in the first place. I think this is do to those individuals being more aware of their surroundings and knowing where not to be.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It was, in a way: states that had previously prohibited concealed-carry began to allow it.

Yep. But a number of states that had (a long time ago) permitted concealed-carry have since banned it. Florida is AFAIK the first to undo the ban.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

I've had a New York State permit to carry concealed for over 25 years?
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Did NY at one time ban CCW? Read what I wrote, please.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It was one of the first to go from oppressive to sane. As you say, others never went to "oppressive" in the first place.
How much gun violence is there in Alaska?

It's a self-selecting population, to be sure, who becomes CCW certified. I see it as little different from learning CPR, or how to run an automatic defib - the few people who do, benefit all those who don't. Odds are that if you do need someone with the appropriate training, they might be around, which is better than knowing that they won't, or can't.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bob Martin wrote:

No it wouldn't, stop beliving those who wish to control you (and me) and to do so need you unable to resist whatever they foist upon you.
Niel, UK.
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. Robert A. Heinlein
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:53:34 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Bob

What you fail to recognize is that once you own a gun and have learned to shoot and maintain it, you also have gained a hell of lot more respect for them. Again, look at the stats. Gun owners as a group, especially those with concealed weapons permits, are the sanest, most law-abiding folks you'll ever meet.
It's criminals who do the drive-by shootings and road-rage killing, Bob, not law-abiding citizens and neighbors.
If you're not just some anti-gun nut and do want more info, I'll give you some cites for books and websites for more real information. Just ask.
--
***********************************************************
"Boy, I feel safer now that Martha Stewart is behind bars!
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Please don't be so condescending. I served four years in the RAF and was trained on all sorts of weapons and I was also a member of a pistol club for quite a while. I'll say it once then I'm out of here - I do not want to live in a country where guns are freely available - and 90-95% of Brits agree with me.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That explains why they stay in Britain, where guns are freely available to criminals, but forbidden to the law-abiding.
And it also explains why the Brits who disagree are emigrating.
Kevin
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

to live in

me.
But the fact is that you are living in a country where guns are easily available if not freely available. In Britain and Canada, illegal handguns can be obtained for relatively small sums of money. In Toronto, Canada this year, we've had more gun violence than ever before. Getting a permit to own a handgun is pretty difficult here, but that hasn't stopped the escalation of shootings. I think most Canadians believe that guns are finding their way up here from the US.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Then I guess you should leave Britain. Fact is, where you live, guns are readily available to the criminal element. Here in the US, they're readily available to everyone.
I like our way better.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I can't agree with you. The US and Canada are close enough in lifestyles that you can compare. Your readily available guns compared to our not as readily available guns, the percentage of your crime and murder rates with a gun being involved are much higher than what we have here in Canada.
How do you rationalize that your way is better?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Hellooooo.... I was comparing the US to the UK. But since you brought it up...

That depends on how you measure. The rate of firearm ownership is much lower in Canada than in the US, and although the crime and murder rates per *capita* are higher in the US, the rates per *firearm* are significantly higher in Canada.

Canadians who possess guns are more likely to use them in committing crimes than are Americans who possess guns. How is *your* way better?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

lower
*capita*
Absolute and complete garbage. Pull that one out of your ass Doug?

crimes
Of course. Most law abiding Canadians don't have guns so it makes sense that the criminal element who do have guns are more likely to use them.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Actually, it's true, and you have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm
Guns per capita in Canada: 0.25 Guns per capita in the U.S.: 0.82 Firearms death rate per 100K population: 4.3 in Canada, 11.4 in the U.S.
Yes, folks, that's right: with 3.3 times as many firearms per capita as Canada, the United States has only 2.7 times as many firearm *deaths* per capita.
Other interesting statistics from that site: 27.3% of Canadian homicides were committed with firearms, versus 66% in the United States -- but, on average, 25% of Canadians own firearms, versus 82% in the United States. Clearly, of the two, _Canada_ is the one with a firearm violence problem.
And even more interesting, nearly half (46%) of Canadian firearm homicides were committed with handguns. I thought that Canadian law made handgun ownership very difficult?

And this is better exactly how?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

that
The fewer guns there are in society, the fewer times they're going to be used. You seem to think that only criminals use guns. How many law abiding citizens have shot someone in a fit of rage or simply when they've lost their temper? How many kids have been shot accidentally when play with their parent's gun? How many accidents have there been?
How many shootings have happened simply because a gun has been available instead of a knife, or baseball bat or even fists. While those three things can definitely kill, they don't come close to inflicting the carnage on the human body that a bullet can.
Is that simple enough an explanation for you?
You seem to think that just because the US permits it's citizens the greatest latitude of human rights anywhere, it's necessary for everyone to go out and partake of all those rights. While owning a gun is one your rights, it doesn't for one second mean that it's a good right. The human species it too self centred and too arrogant to know any better.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

"used" doesn't tell the story. It's how they're _being_ used that matters. I "use" my guns all the time, for their intended purposes...recreation, investment, enjoyment, historical study, engineering insights, and so on.

By definition, zero.

More than there should be, of course. How many defensive uses of firearms happen, which don't involve a shot being fired?

Again, you're lumping all gun use into the same category. Not all of us are criminals.

It gives good insight into your limited understanding of the situation, yes, but I'm guessing that's not what you meant.

And you'd rather have me disarmed while the criminals run around knowing they're safe, then? After all, the criminals won't give up their guns, because, _they're criminals_. By definition, they don't follow laws, you see. So, if honest people _do_ disarm, and the dishonest people _don't_ disarm, the only people who are safer, are the criminals.
Not my idea of a good thing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Clearly contradicted by the statistics that I cited. (BTW, those came from a Canadian gun control group's web site.)

Where did you get that idea? Certainly wasn't from anything I wrote.

All those combined are nowhere nearly as numerous as the criminal misuses of firearms. And I think you know that. If you don't... educate yourself before debating the topic further.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.