(Taking Max aside for a little friendly advice... Dude... see this
wall here? Now go smack your head against it till it bleeds. That is
what 'discussing' things with Clarke gets you... a head ache. Nothing
more. You are wasting your time.)
Thanks R, I needed that. My head is already bleeding from that
Maybe it's time to get off the free newsreader and get one with a
plonking feature. Spell check would be nice too, I often embarrass
Frank, if you're on Windows, might I
recommend Mozilla Thunderbird
(www.mozilla.com) with a free account at
T'bird has spell checking, and rules for
plonking. It may not be the best out
there, but it's served me well, and it's
free as well.
Then you try something else......One can get married and put your spouse to
work, a couple could even take turns and either could squeeze in part time
work as well. One can kiss up to your parents and hang around the homestead
until college is done. There are a unlimited variety of jobs that coincide
with college classes coupled with roommates or shared housing etc.....There
are ample college loans and scholarships available for direct school costs
and in many cases living costs as well. I think your confusing difficult
Regrettably as more easy money (via loans & taxes) has flooded the market
schools have raised tuition rates far exceeding inflation, actually almost
in lock step with inflated medical costs......3rd party payees raise havoc
with market place dynamics. Community colleges while expensive as well are
far cheaper than 4 yr. institutions thus provide a much cheaper weeding out
process for the many whom attempt but fail to finish school.
My wife's family (three brothers and her) were literally as poor as church
mice, her Dad was pastor of a small church and her Mom had decade long major
medical problems and bills.....her 2 brothers and my wife all graduated from
college...for those whom want it and have enough gray matter to get by,
there is always a way. Rod
Motivation to do well. Hopefully he has done the cost trades
Yep, if you look deep enough. I grew up on a small family farm that was
far from prosperous. My folks pushed us to do will in school and were
supportive in terms of providing a place to live (couldn't afford the dorm,
so I had a 30 mile commute), provided the opportunity to work to pay for
school (I put myself through school raising pigs), and encouragement --
they couldn't provide money. Both my brother and I got our engineering
degrees and found good jobs that have been good to us. We could have
groused about how we couldn't afford to go to college if we tried the
traditional route, but as Rod said, if there is a will there is a way.
I'm trying to figure out if you are looking for excuses for others, or
what the deal is, you seem to be able to identify why it is just impossible
for someone starting with little to do well (or even OK). Not everyone
will become plant manager, manager, or CEO, but with determination and some
drive, it should be possible to make a decent living.
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
True, but others have taken their place. When I had my TV guide route
(12 years old, anyone old enough to remember them), then two paper
routes, there were no fast food joints. McDonalds came out a few
years later, and I worked there for $.60 per hour. Now most of the
paper delivery is motor routes, but there is a fast food place on
every corner and they are always hiring, usually at a couple of bucks
premium to minimum. Seems like everyone uses yard services now, and
in this area year round, another opportunity that didn't really exist
when I was young. Mall retail has expanded exponentially. That
little downtown movie theatre has turned into two or three multiplex
It is all in attitude. You will probably have to have intelligence to
get to be the president of the company, but attitude will get you most
of the way there. Primarily attitude means putting your ego
subserviant to your employer and his stakeholders. It is so simple.
And yes, you can always find an anecdotal situation where an
individual cannot pull himself up, but statistically, I believe there
are more opportunites today to get started then ever.
When I was a teenager
I agree ... the willingness to work to "get the job done right", is the
single thing I see most lacking in those I hire today.
So lacking in fact, that the opposite is "remarkable" in its most precise
Success _is_ , eventually, that simple ...
Yes. I have a SIL who is a wannabee, while the kid supports his sorry
ass (and his kid). Before they were married, he wanted to be a
photographer, but his camera broke and he couldn't afford another. He
managed to get a 60" TV that year, though. He wasn't happy when I
pointed out that a lot of my camera gear was bought in plade of things
like that. We still have a 25" CRT TV (in fairness, neither my wife
nor I watch much TV, so it doesn't matter to us). He wanted to be a
writer, but couldn't sit down long enough to do it (all he does is
f..king sit, fer crissakes!), and when he found out I was a former
Marine, he piped up with, "Marines! I love the discipline." He
wouldn't know discipline if it bit him on the ass. I told him a few
weeks ago he should go check the Marines out; they're taking people up
to at least 34, and he's 32. He looked panicky and chaged the subject.
He tells our daughter it would "demean" him to work for a low wage (8
bucks an hour, I think he was talking about), but it doesn't demean
him to take child support from his son's mother, while living off
We discovered we were wrong about his job record. I had thought he
hadn't worked at anything more than two months. Nope. He worked almost
six months in one job.
Ugh. SSOS. AKA sorry sack of shit.
He will fail at any job he attempts. Christ, they're dying for welders
around here. If I were his age, I'd head for the nearest place to
learn torch and stick handling, and start applying. Places are taking
low end welders, paying 12-13 bucks an hour, and training them. Sure,
it's hard work. But it is work you can do well and be proud of.
Ah, pfui. You cannot re-program many of the losers, I'm afraid. Those
that you can, of course, are not really losers, just people
temporarily down on their luck. Those people should be helped.
Ambition, good attitude, common sense, the desire to do better. Some of the
people in the deparment were great at the job they did, but had no
management skills, nor did they have the interest. There are millions of
workers that do a good job, but that is all they want to do. Punch in, work,
punch out. No thinking required. It was a union shop and they did have
some security. That security and good union wage went away when the company
moved south to cut costs.
As stated, my income for the year was $5800, or $111 a week. That included
some overtime. Base was probably $90 a week or so.
As a side note, Social Security sends you an annual summary of your
earnings. We could live well for a year back then on what is now a month's
In high school I did sometimes work the meat counter and use the slicer. I
was 16 at the time. Now you have to be 18. I wokred 2 hours a day M-F and
8 on Saturday. Most of the small stores are gone but fast food takes at
least some of their place.
Some of the jobs are gone, but many parents don't want their kids to work,
but to play organized sports and take music lessons and other activities
that keep them busy. I had to buy my own car; too many parents give the kids
a car and unwittingly take away a lot of incentive to do well in life.
How does one get "management skills" and convince the boss that one
Yep. That's part of the problem. You used to be able to live on
minimum wage, but minimum wage also didn't apply to a number of jobs
that were considered to be starter jobs for teenagers. Much of that
has been closed off now, so the minumum wage has to be kept low enough
to allow at least some of those jobs to still exist.
Mine were that way and I'm still trying to recover.
I don't know if anyone can "get" those
skills. They can hone them, improve
them, and work hard at improving what
you already have. As Frank stated
earlier, many people have neither the
aptitude nor willingness to pursue that
line of work. And that's fine for them.
It seems that the people who have the
skills are born with a natural
inclination to lead. I'm not equating
leadership skills with management skills
100%, but there is a correlation.
As often as not, convincing the boss
comes down to playing the game, whatever
it is within that particular organisaton.
Can't give a definitive answer to that. In my case, I was one day summoned
to the office of the plant manager. He had seen me around the plant (I
was doing inventory control) and asked if I wanted to be a part of his team
when he took over as Manufacturing Manager. Two weeks later I had a new
job. Progressive companies are always on the lookout for good workers and
ways to promote them. My shipping supervisor came to us from burger
flipping. He worked in shipping and now runs the department. My maintenance
supervisor was a maintenance and mold setup guy and when his boss moved to
Florida, we gave him a chance.
We reward good people also. Super Christmas bonuses, a weekend trip after
10 years. a 10 day trip of your choice after 15 years (I went to Italy), and
a generally good working atmosphere every day. Very few people quit this
company as we are treated very well.
Must be nice. The places I've worked were _not_ like that. Promotion
by seniority, when there's a downturn the junior people get laid off
and the seniors get demoted, the only way up was for someone to retire
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