OT again: Parents could be fined for missing school meetings

Page 8 of 11  
Leon wrote:

I understood what you wrote the first time. The parent's failure to call and cancel with a reasonable excuse is a breach of courtesy, nothing more. It is for that breach of courtesy that the fine is imposed. So what's taken out of context?

You need to define what you mean by "after hours." I thought the issue was a parent failing to cancel an appointment made with a teacher. Meeting like that are almost universally done at school before 6:00 p.m. I don't consider that "after hours" for a teacher.
> The parents no show costs plenty.
Not in money, it doesn't.

was not kept? If you start basing arguments based on all kinds of assumed facts like that, does it mean I can do the same thing?
And talk about exaggeration. A parent misses a meeting with a teacher, and the child learns it is OK that his word means nothing? Give me a break.

So the only reason a parent fails to cancel a teacher meeting is that the parent is too stoned to pick up the phone? You're not really that naive, are you?

If the parent is using drugs like that, the answer isn't a $500 fine for not canceling a teacher's meeting. The answer to that particular problem cannot be found anywhere in the public school system. If a child is misbehaving because his parent is too strung out on drugs to cancel an appointment with an teacher, no amount of teacher-parent discussion, or any other school-based intervention, is going to solve the problem. The answer to that problem is to bring the child into the juvenile court system for his own protection, possibly get the child and parent court-ordered psychological counseling, and other social services provided by Child Protective Services, and possibly, depending on the facts of a particular case, to run the parent through the criminal justice system and put the child in foster care.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

I did not say that you did not understand, I indicated that you took what I said out of context. I have said it 2 times for you. The parent has a problem concerning his child. He agrees to an appointment and agrees to attend the meeting. If he then does not show and does not call and cancel with a reasonable excuse he will be fined. The fact that I mentioned common courtesy is perhaps a benefit of living in Texas. The fact that the parent did not show up for the meeting that he scheduled SHOULD be reason enough for the fine. The proposed law goes an extra step in favor of the parent and lets the parent get out of the scheduled meeting by calling and canceling. If the parent fails to show up "and" fails to cancel with a reasonable excuse the fine is issued.

Not in Texas, where the law is being proposed. I very often met with a teacher at night if I needed to talk to the teacher.

do you understand that the cost is not a direct one???? Do you think prisons run for free? Who do you think it is that pays for welfare?

Kids are not as stupid as you may believe. They know what is going on. Typically a note is sent home with the child long before meetings are suggested.
If you start basing arguments based on all kinds of

What assumed fact? If the parent breaks promices to the school he certainly has done it time and time again.

I can see your problem now.

No, I am trying to talk on a level that you seem to understand better.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

How about a reciprocal law, that if the parent makes an appointment for, say, 4:00 and the teacher keeps the parent waiting until 4:30, the teacher has to pay the parent $500?
How about extending the law to doctors who keep their patients waiting, drivers license and vehicle registration lines, etc., where ANY professional or beaurocrat who keeps you waiting a half hour or more has to pay you $500?
I'd bet the teacher unions would be screaming bloody murder over a proposal that put the shoe on the other foot.

failing to cancel a meeting with a teacher and his child turning to a life of crime or living on the government dole? NO? I thought not.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Are you really an ostrich? ;~) I thought so.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

to say.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

YOU are A B S O L U T E L Y correct. Rational comments have meant nothing to you so far.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You see, I would have never said that. But straight out of your mouth comes that comment. My comments toward you are more from my observation that you seem to have you head buried in the sand.
You often take things I say out of context and then twist them in to some absurd conclusion, just like now.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Please, you are now reduced to making up ridiculous "what-ifs" to support a really bad premise, making excuses for the bad behavior of the "downtrodden". I would be reasonably certain that were there extenuating circumstances such as these, the school would work with the parents involved to resolve such issues. In a practical sense, it is seldom people who are in this level of distress who have the problems the legislator is trying to address.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Even? What do you think preschool was created for?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yep, the ones who attend conferences are the parents of the kids whose effort and results are generally the best. Can't say it publicly, or in the lounge, which might be wired, because it's not the position of the NEA, but over partitions in the john most teachers will confess to believing that parental concern may be the reason for the kids' positive outcome.
Sometimes it's the village idiot who wants to raise your kids, what?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The HS that my son graduated from had heavy parent involvement. At all of the parent student meetings the principal an teachers preached that the students that had parent involvement at the school were the ones that did the best. His graduation had 130 students of which half intended to go on to college. His graduation class was awarded 1.5 million dollars in college scholastic academic scholarships for those 65 students.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Nailshooter, you put that point a lot more eloquently than I did and with a lot more good humor.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

And unfortunately those that he aimed that at will wonder what just went flying way over their heads. What is it with all the people that want some one else to take responsibility for their kids?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SNIP of reference quote
Progress reports go unanswered; emails ignored; phone calls

I have a whole new outlook on teaching, teachers and parents with my pal going to teaching than I did before. Talk about a look from the inside. Simply having kids in school and claiming you understand teaching and the school system is like building a birdhouse and calling yourself a general contractor.
Until his new school super came on board, the teachers caught all the flack for poor student performance. We all know there are poor teachers, but according to him, there are also a lot of good ones.
He hasn't had to face the guy that work 2.5 jobs and lives out of district because his child was bussed and he is afraid of child protective services. Paul would probably drive out to meet that guy personally. No... it is much more mundane. The excuses he hears are "I forgot", "oh, was today?" and (my favorite) "I didn't do good at math either, so why should he?".
The best though, is when it is time to pass/fail, and the parents are sent a notification letter and very few respond. They do respond though (magically finding the time!) when they find out their kiddo will be held back a grade. Their response? No one told me. This is the first I have heard of this...
And since the teachers didn't keep records of when they sent out notices, emails, made phone calls, etc., they were held at fault by the parents. How could their little angel be put back a grade? He only missed 10 unexcused days in the whole semester... and he did turn in something for an assignment... I don't know what it was or what class it was, but I do remember that one day he was working on schoolwork...
Enough teachers received discipline notices that they pushed the principal and superintendent to come up with a new plan since they felt like they were getting blamed for problems. Now, since the school district has been SUED for not passing students, they have a system that satisfies today's litigious requirements.
They are required to notify the parents (and keep records of same) if the students start slipping in their grades, have unexcused absences, or they are tardy too many times. They parents must be notified in a time frame that allows the student to recover. If there is no response, they do it again, all documented, this time with the principal involved. If no response, they notify the parents again with the assistance of the principal's office so that the school admin is involved.
In other words, they are building a case against the parents.
And to address another aspect of suspicioned technophobia, here's how phone notification works (according to my buddy):
"We called you twice to let you know about this"
"No you didn't"
"Yes we did"
"No you didn't"
"Oh yes we did!"
"Prove it!"
Although he likes that one, he really likes the parents that wind up with the principal telling the admin staff they have never heard of Paul, much less talked to him.
The parents if these children don't feel the need to keep up with their kids, and they honestly feel like it is the job of the school to assist them in raising their kids, not just to educate them.
What is truly sad is the fact that the kids know they face no consequences from parents or school, and with a 47% dropout rate (2006 statistic as compiled by the school district) before graduation, they don't care. Paul's students have told him, "yeah dude, I gave the note to my parents but you know they won't call." He tries to do what he can, but he is now at the place in his career where he realizes you simply can't save them all. And without help from the parents - impossible. According to him, the parents are usually 75% or more of the problem.
But here is where the district is caught in the crack. If they have XX % of dropouts or fails, they will lose their State funding first, then their Federal funding, which means they are gone. Strange, isn't it? It puts them in a position of trying everything they can to keep butts in the seats, if for no other reason than to protect the jobs in the school district.
I don't want this to sound like I am 100% all pro education, though. Rest assured, I do see both sides of the arguement. If the parents don't care about education and furthering the interests and well being of their kids, who are we to say that is wrong?
And when I am trying to screw with Paul (who still has a little of that "Welcome Back Kotter" them song running through his head) I always tell him to calm down, and like water, let the situation find its own level.
We live in South Texas, and in some areas of the state business is mainly manufacturing and agriculture. So my questions to him are: if all are educated, who will pick our lettuce? Who will pick the grapefruits and pack them for shipping? Who will clean up my jobsites and load the dumpsters? Who will prime and paint the bumpers at the truck bumper plants? Who will clean the live animal pens at the meat packing plant, and who will clean the guts up from the killing and first gutting floor at the slaugher house? Who will hold the "SLOW" sign that you see when going through a small road construction project?
So if we educate them all, who will do those jobs? Certainly not the immigrants that are coming over these days. They make work the fields if they are illegals, but the legal guys that take piece work from me are educated enough to do complex carpentry work, do some really good paint/plaster work (including estimating material amounts and costs for large jobs) and some even run their own small businesses. So where would that leave us in the long run if we run out of people to take the worst jobs? In one sense, those with lesser education hold an important position in our economy. Would any of you want your kids doing those jobs to support a family - your grandkids?
Thankfully, we won't have to make that decision for a while. His school district will continue on as it has for many, many years, and we will have a steady supply of feeble minded imbeciles that simply cannot do better. Some have the native intelligence to do so, but simply not having been encouraged or disciplined to do better, they don't. These smarter guys make great drug dealers and the actual leaders of some of our local gangs.
For me, the solution is easy. If the parents don't participate and show an interest, their kids are doomed. If neither side cares, and ample time, effort, tax payer's money and teacher attention is spent, they should pull out both parents and kids from the school, and leave the teachers with the parents that give damn and kids that want to learn. There are still a few of those families out there, even in his district.
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
We live in South Texas, and in some areas of the state business is mainly manufacturing and agriculture. So my questions to him are: if all are educated, who will pick our lettuce? Who will pick the grapefruits and pack them for shipping? Who will clean up my jobsites and load the dumpsters? Who will prime and paint the bumpers at the truck bumper plants? Who will clean the live animal pens at the meat packing plant, and who will clean the guts up from the killing and first gutting floor at the slaugher house? Who will hold the "SLOW" sign that you see when going through a small road construction project?
If the jobs need to be done and you have no one to fill them raise the price you are willing to pay and they will line up for the work. So currently if lettuce is 89 cents a head with a $6 picker, the price might go up a bit if they had to pay $10 or $20 for a picker but the market would find it's price.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SNIP

Roger... judging by the lack of response here, you may be the only one that didn't get that the particular paragraph you quoted was tongue in cheek. Of course I don't advocate generations of mindless idiots doing menial jobs for a living. I am one of those who still believe you should be all you can be.
God forbid we raise more generations of lettuce pickers and sign carriers simply because their parents are too lazy to take advantage of the opportunities for themselves and their kids.
Sorry for the confusion.
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 3 Feb 2007 23:11:34 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

Around here the SLOW sign is held by whatever hapless cop got on the watch captain's shit list.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have to agree with the intent of the law, but...first, sometimes it is the village idiot who HAS the kids, and making that idiot attend teacher/parent meetings or pay a fine they probably don't have the money to meet is a typical asinine government response.
This is not a matter for legislation. When I was a kid, and belonged to a Republican organization called Young Americans for Freedom (YAF), the idea was to keep government out of the individual citizen's life as much as possible. Today's Republican Party seems to be doing just the opposite, from education to bedroom.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

... snip

I'm not sure why you feel that in this case, it's not a matter for legislation when what is being addressed is a problem with beneficiaries of a taxpayer-funded program (free education) whose lack of participation is raising its cost and decreasing its value to those who are participating. That is one of the areas where legislation seems reasonably applied.
What is funny here is all the people getting their panties in a wad over attempting to address this problem but no ire has been addressed toward the school district in New Jersey that is instituting mandatory urinalysis of students to check for alcohol consumption. That seems to be a wee bit more intrusive and abusive of individual rights, freedoms, and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.