Newbie question: How to make finger joint cut

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Andy Jeffries wrote:

Sorry, I didn't pick up on the UK. Nothing that happens in the UK would surprise me--it's always been a mystery to me how any country that can produce such mechanical marvels as the E-Jaguar and the Supermarine Spitfire can also produce such horrors as the saw without a cutting depth adjustment that you describe.

In the US a "Bench Saw" is just a saw small enough to be placed on a workbench for use and then put back on the floor or shelf when bench space is needed. To be

Sorry, no real opinion on those, other than that if it has a cutting depth adjustment it's got to be an improvement over what you have.

--
--John
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LOL!!!
Yeah, it's odd - I've just ordered the one I mentioned from Axminster and that's considered a bench saw (although it looks a world away from what I'm used to).
I'll take a photo of my old one before I bin it/give it away...

Yep, has a depth adjustment. The best bit is that it has a mitre slide :-) And a maximum cutting depth of 80odd millimiters as opposed to a fixed cutting depth of 43mm...
Getting excited.....
Cheers,
Andy
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On 13 Jul 2004 20:56:48 -0700, scott_d snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Scott Kuhn) wrote:

Scott-
what tools do you have?
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On 13 Jul 2004 20:56:48 -0700, scott_d snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Scott Kuhn) wrote:

Hmmmm . . .
I don't see a lot of glue surface there.
"Glue surface" is long-grain. The only "long grain to long grain" contact in that joint is where the two horizontals meet.
That's a weak joint.
There's a reason why we're still cutting dovetails, finger joints, and mortises and tenons--LOTS of glue surface.
If you have hand tools, you want dovetails for that application.
If you've a table saw, use a dado to cut finger joints.
If you've a router, either finger joints OR dovetails.
If the joinery won't show, I've made similar joints with internal glue blocks screwed into both sides of the joint--fast and easy, though none too attractive.
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(Scott Kuhn)

I think that this is a smallish decorative box, primarily made for practice, in a beginning course of woodworking. Based on the cited author, my strong suspicion is that dovetails are on the agenda, a couple of chapters later.
BTW, if you were to pin these joints vertically, say with a small dowel, or brass rod, they would probably hold up better, in this limited application.
Patriarch
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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote in message > Scott-

Right now, only hand tools save for a 12" Makita Compound Miter Saw.
Hand Tools: * Dozuki saw * Full set of chisels * Block Plane * Marking knives, try square, etc.
I'm planning to buy power tools as I need them, probably starting with a Tormek sharpening system as I'm tired of using sandpaper to sharpen my chisels. I'm trying to figure out what to buy first, TS or router & router table. Since the TS tends to scare the sawdust out of me, I'm leaning towards the router. Having said that, Woodcraft just started carrying a General International Tablesaw with a left-tilting blade which looks _sweet_.
Cheers, Scott
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On 14 Jul 2004 12:50:16 -0700, scott_d snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Scott Kuhn) wrote:

given that, I'd say use the dozuki and the chisels <G>
since you are doing this for practise, get some extra wood and try it a few different ways. for instance, you can use the miter saw to do the crosscut part. it's not the best possible way to do it, and you will likely have to finish off the cut with a chisel, but you will learn something and gain some skill with your saw in the process.

get the table saw first. use it to build the router table. keep the router table simple and figure on replacing it within a year as you figure out what features you actually need. put the money you save into a better quality router.

don't make the mistake of thinking that the router can't or won't bite you. router injuries are nasty.....

it doesn't seem to be on their website yet.
shop around a bit- and if you want to read a bit more, choosing a tablesaw is a subject that regularly gets beaten to death here: http://tinyurl.com/4p7hb
I recommend that you buy an older american made table saw.

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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote in wrote in message >

<snip>
Scott,
Bridger has offered good advice, in all respects.
I add only this: Post a digital picture when you get the first box done. Then do one with contrasting woods, just for showing off.
And feel free to come back here for help, whenever.
Patriarch
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Scott Kuhn wrote:

For the cut you're doing Dozuki and chisels would be the way to go unless you want to go for the table saw.
Table saw or radial arm saw would be your first purchase IMO. Table saw is the ripmaster, radial arm is the crosscut master. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, either will do most of your straight cuts. Since you already have a compound miter saw I'd go with the table saw.
Rather than the Tormek, consider getting a couple of 8" diamond plates ranging from xtra course to extra fine and a black Arkansas or a polishing waterstone. Even if you get the Tormek later you won't regret having them. I can generally get from "beat up" to "surgically sharp" faster on those than I can using a grinder. Several times in my life I considered a powered sharpener and asked myself why, and the answer invariable was "fast stock removal on a really beat up tool" or "fast stock removal to change the cutting angle", and every time I added a coarser stone to my collection until finally I had one course enough.

--
--John
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Interesting advice, I will consider it. The Tormek is a lot of do-re-mi - but my attraction to it stems from my inexperience. Reading the reviews of the thing I became convinced that it is simpler to use than stones, because instead of having to move the tool across the stone at a constant angle, you just have to clamp the tool into the jig at the correct angle and turn the machine on. Seems to take some of the required skill out of the equation, no? Not that those skills wouldn't be nice to develop over time...
--Scott
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Scott Kuhn wrote:

No. There are simple, easy-to-use tool holders for controlling the angle at which the tool being sharpened contacts the sharpening surface. I have an inexpensive little jig from Lee Valley that I use for chisels and plane irons - that does an absolutely gee-whiz job.
FWIW, you're unlikely to ever burn a tool (spoil its temper) during hand sharpening - and I'd almost /guarantee/ that you will with a powered grinder. DAMHIKT
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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You'd have to work damn hard at it with a Tormek. I doubt it's even possible.

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Scott Kuhn wrote:

The Veritas jig, <http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page3001&category=1,43072,43078&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=> and many others, work fine. They're really "training wheels" in a sense--after you get a feel for the correct angle using the jig you'll find yourself doing without it more and more often.

--
--John
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scott_d snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Scott Kuhn) wrote in

The Adult Education center where I take classes has a Tormek system. I used it to redo some seriously beat up, but very vintage Stanley Sweetheart plane blades. Were I doing this sort of thing in a shop setting, with several people, and lots of hand tool edge work going on, then MAYBE a Tormek would make sense. As a hobbyist, I look at the Tormek, and see, for the same money, two or three more handplanes, from LV, or LN, or an old Stanley scrounger/dealer.
It's the old trade off: Buy a tool, or learn the skills. It takes perhaps 20 minutes to learn how to properly sharpen a chisel, another 15 minutes on top of that for a handplane blade. Practice on a set of 4 chisels, with a knowledgeable tutor, and you have the skill for life.
If you're in the SF Bay Area, (noted from another post), your local Woodcraft teaches the class on Saturday morning, or in the evening. Or check with the local community college or adult education for one.
The other warning is that, if you set your tool needs based on what some of the woodworking magazines are showing off this month, then you are possibly going to do serious damage to your bank account. Not everyone needs a Timesaver or a Multi-router... DAMHIKT.
Patriarch
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:49:22 GMT, patriarch
snip good advice...

BBBBUTTTT.....
Norm has one. I gotta have one too....
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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote in wrote:

I'll give you the same answer I gave my eldest son, when he asked when he could buy a motorcycle: "When it's OK with your wife...."
Patriarch
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patriarch wrote:

That might be a mistake. Now he's going to be concentrating on biker chicks when the time comes . . . Not that there's anything wrong with biker chicks as long as they have something else going on in their lives besides motorcycles.

--
--John
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I would get the TS first....
wrote in message > Scott-

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Scott Kuhn wrote:

As to how I'd make that specific cut "accurately and repeatably", IMO it's practically made to order for a radial arm saw. Two passes, one with the blade vertical to cut from the edge, one horizontal from the end, stack your pieces and you can do a dozen or so on one pass depending on thickness.
But if you don't have a radial arm saw then you'd have to go out and get one to use that approach, so it's probalby not cost effective for you.
The problem with questions like this is that there is no "right" answer. The "best" way to do it depends on too many factors. If all you've got it a Swiss Army Knife and you're a broke student with plenty of time then you can do it, very carefully, with a Swiss Army Knife, sharpening it on a coffee mug in the cafeteria as needed. On the other hand, if you're the CEO of Delta you hand the piece to an engineer and tell him to whip you up a machine that takes whatever he has in at one end and produces finished parts at the other (OK, I'm exaggerating--he'd probably just pull a radial arm saw off the line if he didn't already have one).
Part of the "art" of woodworking is figuring out how to do what you need to do with what you have and failing that what's the best thing to do about it--the "best thing to do about it" is not necessarily get a tool optimized for that one job--there may be one that does it "good enough" and does a lot of other stuff that you've been working too hard at with what you have.
You asked how to handle a cut of that nature that is too deep for the blade depth on your table saw. Many ways. You could use any of several varieties of hand saw, a band saw, a jigsaw, a scrollsaw, etc. If the stock thickness is less than twice the cut depth of the longest bit your router will handle then you could route it and clean up the corner with a chisel. If you're desperate enough you could drill multiple holes along the cut line then smooth it with a chisel.

--
--John
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like this is that there is no "right" answer.

I agree...clearly there are many ways to skin this cat. I got a good chuckle out of your swiss army knife example, especially the part about sharpening on the coffee mug. :>)
sdk
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