Marc Spagnuolo - The Money Whisperer!

[Leon]

Did you miss the green on the 2x4's with the anchor bolts coming through them?

Have you ever been to Arizona? That is where the aircraft bone yard is at. No need to rust roof anything because of the dry climate. I think I would be surprised to not see splits after a short while. PT is typically wet when you get it, cut the end off to exposed

Again, in Arizona, little to no humidity, a fresh cut wet board is going to split/check/dry out quick, the multiple nails probably did not help matters. And you live along the west coast in humid conditions?

[Larry Jaques]

No. Have you ever cut a PT board? The cut end looks like it was soaked in green dye on the outside. Which brings up another thing. I always paint the cut ends of PT with preservative (I can still buy the green, but I use brown deck stain with preservatives for the brown) but they don't. It irks me, because if you need a treated board, all surfaces need to be treated, just like cement board. Ask Swingy what code is on that.

California wasn't _that_ much cooler or drier. Yeah, I lived in Phoenix for a year. Brutal.

Nailsplits are not checks. And it's actually drier in the summer up here in OR than it was in CA, about 15%. The west coast doesn't have the humidity you have down there in the south, even during a rainstorm. I do NOT miss any of the humid places I've lived in or visited. Phoenix (during the '72 floods), Little Rock, Fort Smith, Fort Lauderdale, Love Field (you're flyover country, boy ;), NYC, D.C., Philly.

-- While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our creativity, or our glorious uniqueness. -- Gilda Radner

[Leon]

It should look like that if the treatment went all the way inside the board, very often it does not.

Which brings up another thing. I

If the board is properly treated, why treat the fresh cut ends?

I saw 3 splits, 2 nails and only one split in line with the right side nail.

[Swingman]

Gotta admit I'm not familiar with that particular requirement under any building code that I've built under. But that is not to say that it is not a requirement in one of the many iterations of building codes, particularly local/municipalities additions to same.

Logically, and since PT is supposedly saturated with the preservative, I can't imagine that being a requirement, but then again stranger things have happened ...

[Leon]

I think it might be safe to assume that different locations do have different building codes and that the highly recommended builder in this situation probably did things right, especially knowing going in that things were going to be filmed for the public to see.

[Larry Jaques]

I -know- you're not that dumb, Leon.

-- While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our creativity, or our glorious uniqueness. -- Gilda Radner

[Larry Jaques]

PT doesn't get all the way inside, it only sinks in 1/4" max from what I've seen around here and in CA. Cut ends are entirely untreated and prone to rot.

I got curious myself. Best Practices call for painting drilled holes and cuts.

The pressure treated wood in Whispy's video was the absolute worst I've ever seen, if those sills were all PT. Even the green one looked as if it had been sprayed lightly with green oil, not PTed. I'be been getting fed up with the crap that has been showing up in brown lately. Cut it and it shows a brown stain just 3/32 into the wood. I think the mill is running them through a bath, not the heat/pressure/vacuum that the spec calls for. It's just shoddy work on the mill's part. But that doesn't mean the builder can't take minor compensatory action, like best practices.

Looking at the in-process work of that job and the one you posted a few years ago, I'd choose -your- crew to do -my- shop. It just looked more professional all the way through. Or am I wrong? ;)

-- While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our creativity, or our glorious uniqueness. -- Gilda Radner

[Larry Jaques]

That's what blew me away about that construction. But most, if not all, states have gone to using the International codes now. Some states, counties, and cities have added restrictions on top of those to enhance them.

uses 2006 IBC, OR uses 2009 IBC, Texas uses 2003 IBC.

-- While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our creativity, or our glorious uniqueness. -- Gilda Radner

[Leon]

So you don't know either?

[Swingman]

That's for state work only, and the state does very little residential construction ... the local jurisdictions make their own choices.

Currently it's IRC 2006 for most jurisdictions in this part of Texas.

On 11/6/2012 7:52 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:>

> I got curious myself. > Best Practices call for painting drilled holes and cuts.

You left out a most vital element:

"Exceptions can be made when the wood is a thick sapwood species such as Southern pine, has very little heartwood, and appears to be well treated."

SYP is 99.999% of Engineering and Architectural spec's for framing in this neck of the woods.

Even if you can show me a cite requiring painting ends and holes in treated lumber in an actual residential building code in use in the US, it still does not mean it is required in all jurisdictions, or that it is even a "best practice", depending upon the material.

So much for "it's on the Internet and everything on the Internet has to be true, right"?

And I'm a French model ... Baawhn jyour! :)

[Leon]

Well actually PT does get in all the way if done properly and if you are buying the type rated for ground contact. I just helped my son replace a mailbox post, AKA PT fence post. It was in the ground in excess of 25 years with no extra treatment on the end when I put it in the ground originally. Dry rot 12" above ground at a dried out knot was the eventual failure point. We pulled the post out of the ground and the part that was in the ground was actually in almost new shape. I was quite surprised.

OK, consider this. I agree it did not look good but here is a very real possibility. The color may not be coming out true on your monitor or it may not have been video taped properly. Basically seeing it in person might reveal a color we do not see.

Next, my house has PT sills but if you cut one it will appear much greener in the outside than the inside. My sills were retreated with a pesticide that is green in color to deter termites. This may or may not explain what is going on in that video.

Seriously, why don't you contact him on the situation and ask about the details. See if he even noticed or paid attention.

I'be been

Well remember there is rated for ground contact PT and there is the other PT stuff.

[dpb]

On 11/6/2012 8:30 AM, Leon wrote: ...

...

From SYP Association web site...

[dpb]

On 11/6/2012 8:30 AM, Leon wrote: ...

...

From SYP Association web site...

[dpb]

On 11/6/2012 8:30 AM, Leon wrote: ...

...

From SYP Association web site...

[Leon]

Not going to believe that unless you post that 3 more times. :~)

[HerHusband]

Larry,

Ideally the ends and holes should be treated, but in normal use sill plates shouldn't be exposed to moisture anyway. I install a plastic sill sealer which not only seals the small gaps between the sill and concrete, but acts as a moisture barrier as well. Even without the sill sealer, the point of contact is usually the flat treated surfaces, not the ends. Not to mention, the sill should be covered and protected by the sheathing and siding anyway and shouldn't be exposed to moisture in normal use. If moisture does get in, you're more likely to have rotted siding and/or floor joists.

For vertical applications such as deck posts where the cut end is the contact point, I like to use metal post bases that elevate the wood off the foundation an inch or so (and allow good anchoring for the post). I usually put my cut end on top, so the factory treated end is on the bottom.

Pressure treated lumber comes with different exposure ratings, depending on it's intended use. The color only reflects the chemicals used to treat the wood.

Around here the brown "Wolmanized" lumber is only surface treated for light outdoor use on decks and that sort of thing.

Pressure treated wood should be "rated for ground contact" if you're going to use it for sill plates or burying it in the ground (i.e. fence posts). You have to read the tags on the lumber to be sure, but generally the ground contact lumber has evenly spaced holes or perforations where the treatment is injected deeper into the wood.

Anthony Watson Mountain Software

[Leon]

Seems to me that treating the ends would seem logical. BUT Will a topical treatment of the ends last longer than the wood? What if the wood shrinks and the stuff simply peals off. It should protect for the life of the wood to be of any value, not just for the next 5~10 years.

WE! WE!

[Swingman]

And, according to AWPA M4, thick sapwood species (SYP) that appear to be well treated and contain little or no heartwood do not necessarily require field treatment ... practical aspect is that using AWPA U1 certified PT SYP makes it a non issue for most purposes.

[Swingman]

Yep ... and "best practices" extend to much more than one issue alone.

Use of a sill seal is _most_ important in sill plates ... and that, along with using AWPA U1 "certified for the purpose" material makes cutting painted ends a non issue for most residential framing purposes where PT is required by code.

[Dave]

Unfortunately, you've treated the end cuts three times now and the board ends will never dry out.