Marc Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove System?

[edfan]

Has anyone used the Marc Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove system? I emailed a query to the company about what made it better/stronger/worth the extra time compared to employing only the pocket hole joinery it uses and received a reply suggesting I either catch their show demo or buy their $15 videotape on cabinetmaking.

I'm not thrilled to pay $15 to view an infomercial. I'm sure it's a quality product and all, I've purchased other Sommerfeld router bit kits, but there are many quality products that do not solve problems in a universal way. I read the few paragraphs selling this system on the web site but still don't get WHY a person would use it, what superiority it gives to the cabinet project.

Any hints, tips, war stories gratefully solicited --

[Bill Everette]

I've seen the CMT T&G set (800.626.11). Don't think it is Marc Sommerfield though. I have the Sommerfeld Cabinetmaking set, but it's not tongue and groove.

[Bill Everette]

PS. Here's the cheapest I've seen the T&G Set.

[Bay Area Dave]

I hear tell there are entire video stores devoted to "tongue in groove" videos...OH! tongue AND groove!

dave

edfan wrote:

[edfan]

parts, the groove is not down the center of the edge. I can't see the superiority of that. What does it add to the strength of the joint for the added tooling and time? Is this offset joint better than the plain pockethole connections that it uses on top of the T&G? Pockethole joints are pretty strong anyway, what does the T&G add to that?

And why do I have to buy a video to get a clear answer to this question?

Maybe I'm just tired of marketing hype.

.

[JLucas ILS]

The video is excellant. It isnt a marketing hype of the tongue and groove set...it is an instructional video of a slightly different method of cabinet making. Marc Sommerfeld has brought us the Kreg jig and three very great Kreg Jig videos (not available now), a video on raised panel door making and now this. Marc is a cabinet maker first and foremost. His present position allows him to advance cabinet making by his designing some systems...in this case the tongue and groove system. There isnt anything unique about this other than the groove is offset. You could take your traditional T & G and offset them, but Marc has made a new set available. You will have to watch the video to figure out why the difference. Like the Kreg Jig, it is designed to be used as a system...the new T & G is quite a system...and the video is cheap considering all the cabinte making time and errors you can save.

[edfan]

Again - a sales pitch without a single sentence in it that says WHY do this new type of joining for cabinets.

Nobody said MS was not a cabinetmaker. I've purchased his bit sets before. CMT makes good bits. But WHY can't a person tell what makes this offset T&G worth spending over $120 for new bits plus learning a new system? "You will have to watch the video to figure out why the difference," is not an answer, it's something one says instead of an answer. It is another way to say, "Buy the video to find out what's so kewl about this new system." Why is it so impossible to SAY why?

According to the advert, the new offset T&G uses pockethole joints. What makes the OFFSET T&G better than just plain T&G or just plain pocketholes?

[JLucas ILS]

Edfan, My response was NOT a sales pitch at all. I get nothing from Marc or others selling this setup. I do appreciate a cabinetmaker coming up with a new way to make cabinets. For the thousands of people who watched Marc and his people demostrate the system at woodworking shows, there is no question. They saw the demo, bought the video and went home with a new procedure. In that the video is being sold on the Sommerfeld site it means that people who were not able to get to the demos can find out all the details. The video becomes the demo/selling tool. I have watched the demo, watched the video and now have bought the T&G set, not because I like to throw away my money but I witnessed some really good ideas in the long (real time) video. It is no different than buying a book on cabinetmaking...you buy it for ideas. Probably there are only a few ideas that you dont presently used, but the value of the book is paiad for by the few tips that you did pick up. I guess I ahve an inquiring mind that never stops wanting more info...and a videotape, website, live demo, literature are ways that I feed that. It is worth it to me. If it isnt worth it to you and others, just don't buy the video. As I think back to 89 or so when I got the Kreg Jig from Marc at a woodworking show, I saw the demo, bought the tape went home and mulled it over and went back to buy the Kreg jig. THe method works for me.

[edfan]

You've used over 400 words to say:

- You like Marc (as if I didn't)

- Marc designs nice systems (as if I'd disputed that)

- The video is a good course in using the new system (which I have yet to hear the woodworking reason for buying)

We can't buy everything, where would we put it?

I ask again: what makes this offset T&G held together with pockethole screws better than plain T&G or plain pocketholes? It costs twice what a regular CMT tongue and groove system costs from another online vendor. What makes it worth that?

[JLucas ILS]

You are right. Much too much time to spend and not be understood.

[edfan]

In other words, NO, you cannot put together a coherent sentence that asserts any woodworking superiority for this offset T&G system that uses pockethole joinery -- but you could talk around the question for over 400 words?

Okay.

[JLucas ILS]

Edfan, Whatever you say.