Is anyone else getting fed up with Norm?

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"Mark & Juanita" wrote

Thank you, that brings back memories.
I have not dealt with those models specifically. I have worked with older and newer, but not that particular model and year. But they do look familiar.
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"Mark & Juanita" wrote

Nice tractors.
Had an uncle with a 1938 Deere.
Magneto, no cranking motor (ie: stripped bare).
Common comment about him was he was so tight you could hear him coming from 5 miles away.
Made his own tractor front end mounted, belt driven, saw with maybe a 24" saw blade for cutting brush.
Good thing OSHA didn't exist back then.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Dad has a 39 JD A, same amenities. You haven't lived until you've tried hand-cranking a cantankerous engine when it's below 0, the oil is thick as grease and you've got to the the thing fired up because you need to loader.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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Mark & Juanita wrote:

Wow, did I write that? Let me try again -- that last sentence should read:
You haven't lived until you've tried hand-cranking a cantankerous engine when it's below 0, the oil is thick as grease, and you've got to get the thing fired up because you need to use loader.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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"Mark & Juanita" wrote:

Stopped to see this uncle back in 1983 time frame on a sales trip thru Indiana.
Hadn't seen this uncle since 1955 and at the time he was approaching 80+.
Had gotten rid of almost everything on the farm except for an old weather beaten shed where he still kept the tractor.
After a visit, he walked me out to the shed and the tractor which sat there with a rusty Campbell's soup can upside down covering the exhaust pipe.
The can kept the birds out of the exhaust pipe.
"There are only two things I'll always keep, my wife and this tractor", he told me.
My uncle removed the can, walked around to the left side of the tractor where the flywheel was located and reached into the tractor, flipped a couple of valves/switches and assumed an almost straddle position in front of that flywheel, cradling it in his hands.
Cocked his head to get his ear closer to the tractor and began to gently rock that flywheel back and forth.
Suddenly, a quick drive of a leg, a turn of the shoulders, and the old Deere came to life.
It was almost as if a sex act between man and machine had been committed right in front of my eyes.
I had just witnessed what a 50 year relationship between a man and his tools was all about.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

That post was absolute art.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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"Mark & Juanita" wrote:

Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Lew
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We put cans over the (vertical) exhaust pipe to keep the rain out of the engine.
Yep, I used to work on a dairy farm three miles down the road. Old man Swanson was a machinist with a complete machine shop who loved old machinery. Working there was like working in a museum.
He had an old tractor without a steering wheel. Everything on it was levers. It was a massive one cylinder engine with a giant flywheel on the side. Interestingly enough, no matter how cold it was, this old one cylinder was always start.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

I just checked my shop inventory, and here's what I've acquired over ~ _14_ years (SM = shop made):
Cabinet Saw    $1,800.00 8 Jointer    $1,100.00 Thicknesser    $350.00 Dust Collection    $550.00 Drum Sander    $1,100.00 Mortiser    $950.00 HVLP    $700.00 Compressor    $300.00 Nail guns    $300.00 Disc sander    $190.00 Drill Press    $200.00 Router table (SM)    $100.00 Outfeed (SM)    $100.00 Bench    $500.00 DT Jig    $450.00 Routers    $1,200.00 Clamps    $1,500.00 Cordless Tools    $700.00 Hand Edge Tools    $1,500.00 Sharpening    $1,000.00 Measuring & Layout    $300.00 14" Bandsaw    $800.00
Total =    $15,690.00
If you look at it:
1.) The list looks a lot like Norm's shop. 2.) There are items that are NOT necessities on the list, like the HVLP, the big mortiser, the drum sander, the DT jig, $1500 in edge tools, or the Tormek included in the sharpening total. 3.) I bought nearly everything new, but some were refurbs. More diligently looking for used could have saved big bucks. 4.) Most of my heavy iron is General, Delta, and Powermatic. Grizzly might have saved some money if cost was priority one. 5.) I didn't include things you'd need without a wood shop, like sockets. If you own a home and car, you need that stuff.
14 years = 168 months = less than $100/mo ($25/week)
I've built all the good furniture in my home, probably added $15-20k in value to my home with hardwood built-ins and trim, as well as earned $15-20k (net, not gross) with these tools.
Meanwhile, my neighbor just bought a $28,000 camping trailer that he'll use two weeks a year. He'll also pay $500-600 / yr. in property tax while it's parked in the yard.
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wrote:

My list is very similar to Barry's, although I see a miter saw missing on the list. I probably spent too much on my $4500 lathe, no cordless tools, a $900 industrial oscillating sander, a shop-made roll-around air filter/sanding table, and probably $3000 in hand tools and bits. My router table is shop-made too, but even that cost me at least $400 in parts/materials (well worth the cost and time to build). Can't help but be envious of the huge sanding machine in NYW.
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That roughly reflects my inventory and investment. I built the shop for a little over 16K. But I also have a 30K "camper" that I use about 3 - 4 months a year. :-)
Max
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But let me see you park your tablesaw next to a lake in New Hampshire
I've invested about $8000 in tools. I don't have a payback in dollars, but I have plenty of payback in pleasure and satisfaction of making things, giving gifts of things I've made. Present project is a prototype for end tables I want to make in cherry.
Fellow I worked with bought a $110,000 motor home. He has to work a lot of OT to afford it and when he takes it someplace he loses about 10 hours that weekend. I think he used it for one week and two weekends the last year he was here. Oh, it got 8 mpg also, or 50 a mile at today's prices. I'd rather buy wood instead of $30 an hour cruising the highway.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I can land my other toy @ Laconia. <G>
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A lot of the guys on this NG are at a level of sophistication well above that of a typical NYW viewer. I'd guess I am fairly representative of someone who watches Norm just for fun and to learn more than he knew about woodworking from any other source. Here's my version of a shop inventory:
Table Saw (Hybrid) $600.00 Used Radial Arm Saw $75.00 Used 6 Jointer $250.00 (Thanks, Barry) Used Thicknesser $100.00 Dust Collection a/k/a Fein shop vac $225.00 Mortising attachment for drill press $65.00 Compressor - Free* Used Nail guns $135.00 (mostly from pawn shop) Used Disc sander - Free Drill Press $120.00 Router table (SM) $30.00 (cheapo Craftsman benchtop model) Outfeed/Work Table - Free + $50 for plastic laminate Bench $50.00 on Craigslist DT Jig $70.00 Biscuit Joiner $175. Routers $280.00 Clamps $250.00 Cordless Tools $100.00* Hand Edge Tools $100.00 Sharpening $50.00* Measuring & Layout $50.00 Used Bandsaw - Free
*Full disclosure: Besides receiving my bench grinder and probably at least half my clamps as Xmas gifts, I also have tested some tools, written about them, and in a few cases, gotten to keep them, netting me $1000-1500 worth of cordless tools and other goodies. And because I have a few connections in the media, I have also gotten a few decent used tools either free or ultra cheap when a friend in the business got a free upgrade of his tool stash and passed the old one on to me. Nevertheless, my workshop, inspired by Norm, is outfitted with less than $5000 worth of tools, of which I have invested maybe $2700-3000 in actual cash. I am also smart enough to understand that when Norm reaches for a machine that I will never have the space or budget to own, it's not the only way to accomplish the same task and if Norm hasn't already shown me a more practical alternative method in some previous episode, it won't be long before he does. I'm pretty sure Norm has already acknowledged that most of us can't have a big ole Timesaver in our own shops (even the one in the NYW is "on loan") and has therefore suggested that if the need for one arises, we should inquire about renting time on one from a local cabinet shop.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

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An observation:
No where in these tools lists do I find a coffee pot.
"Lee Gordon" wrote:

That is my choice.
A typical commercial drum sander has 3, 25HP motors, each driving a separate grit, and at least a 20HP dust collector complete with bag house.
Anything in a home shop is a toy by comparison.
Typical charges around here are $25-$30 for 20 minutes.
$1/minute, after that.
You do a LOT of sanding in 20 minutes.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

That's still in the kitchen where I go to reacquaint myself with the spouse and try to contain her shopping urges.
Dave N

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Lee Gordon wrote:

Question Lee> How did you get into my shop and when are you going to return it... HI HI...
Actually my shop tool list does look just like this one and cost about as much. Of course the other half thinks it cost more. Actually it does but only after she gets back from the store. HI HI...
Dave N
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All right - I like that stance! Honest, pig headed, and... honest.

I sorta got that from the comments I had snipped when I replied. After all - what else would be implied when saying that you think he can scare away new woodworkers with his type of show?

You gotta stop doing this - it makes having a disagreement in principle difficult.

Ahhhh, for the good old days. I remember when Norm first got his dedicated mortising machine and before that he used to show how to do mortises with common tools. Frankly though, I would bet that for most of his viewers, they really don't care about something like a molding machine or how to make molding without it. They're just going to run down to the local supplier and buy molding. I suspect they really are more interested in things like - well, getting ideas for molding designs. Things like the way to build up moldings to create a complex and elaborate end product.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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Late to a thread, as always.
Norm has grown up - as a furniture maker - over the last dozen years or so. And some of us who started with him while he was the carpenter on This Old House have grown with him, both in terms of tools and machines, as well as furniture making skills. And the competition for viewers has increased significantly due to a) cable/satellite TV and b) the internet (YouTube/Streaming Video, etc.)
NYW's strategy seems to be Keep The Viewers You Have - they're a lucrative demographic - having both time AND money (well at least some of us Boomer still have some money - not a lot - but enough to buy a new toy/tool once every year or so). And THAT audience wants to see projects which are at or beyond their current capabilities - with current tools and skills.
And let's face it - after you've made a bathroom or kitchen cabinet or two - with raised panel doors, Face Frames & Ply get Not So Challenging. And then you've got a great REASON (read excuse) for getting another tool.
If you want a show that uses tools that are hard to come by - and often expensive - check out Roy Underhill. So of those antique molding planes etc. are getting downright pricey.
Norm's Got Toys has become more of an advertisement for the woodworking tools manufacturers - but he still makes some interesting stuff that CAN be done without the $15000 - 36" wide, three drums, drum sander. Come on - he's only got half an hour, maybe an hour, to make and finish a Chippendale piece . . .
charlie b
ps - I'm working with a complete novice at furniture making, doing an 8' tall linen cabinet - with raised panels and raised panel doors - albeit out of poplar. Today she'll be cutting a bunch of loose tenon mortise and tenon joints - for the first time - with the Festool DOMINO. I'm betting she'll do it quite successfully - and quickly and easily (ok so I set up the fence and will do one end grain mortise and one side grain mortise to show her how it's done. Then she'll be on her own. Will post pics after the piece is done and installed. The door hinges will probably be the hardest to get right.
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I too am a BIG fan of Norm's NYWS. I credit him for getting me interested/started in woodworking. I try to record all of his NYWS shows if I am not home when he comes on. I could care less if there are several reruns. I could watch his shows again. I hope he stays on for another 20 years or more. I also enjoy Scott Phillips too. The new Woodsmith show is also interesting A lot of the old time WWrks' criticize Norm, but I think he is a good mentor for us novices and intermiate woodworkers.

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