Heating A Shop

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<BRuce> wrote in message

YOU are not.
--
Jim in NC



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what part of NC, so I can stay away. wouldn't want to drive through and stir up any dust and inadvertently burn the town down.
BRuce
Morgans wrote:

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BRuce


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I'm goin to backtrack just a bit. Can you post an article where a garage or hobbyest shop had one of these dust or solvent based incidents? not a grain silo, not a plastics manufacturing plant, just an ordinary home shop or garage.
With some actual facts even I could change my opinion. I am basing my opinion on my experience and lack of evidence that it does happen.
BRuce
Morgans wrote:

--
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BRuce


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<BRuce> wrote in message

I am with you on this Bruce. I work as a HVAC tech and I see commercial shops with natural gas heat with exposed burners. Strangly, none of them have blown up even though the dust accumulation inside the furnace is unbelieveable! I worked on one the other day that had a good inch of saw dust, right in the burner area. I would like to see an article of a dust explosion in a home, or even a small commercial shop. Greg
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I have PERSONALLY seen contact adhesive fumes catch, ignited by a space heater, flash back to the drying laminate. Little bits of soot floated through the house, requiring a re-painting of nearly every surface.
Good enough? It cost enough.
--
Jim in NC

"Greg O" < snipped-for-privacy@cableone.net> wrote in message
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How close was the heater? I have no doubt that it can happen if the heater is near enough to the the work surface. Careless accidents can happen. Portable space heaters are probably very high on the list for causing fires.I want to know about properly installed furances, shop heaters causing explosions or fires from dust or fumes. I don't think you will find many instances. Greg
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Somebody wrote:

<snip>
ABSOLUTELY.
Using any solvent based contact adhesive, be it used for laminate or floor covering such as tile or carpet, it is mandatory that every burner and pilot light be turned off before you start working.
Learned that lesson from a guy who refaced kitchen cabinets.
First thing he would do is shut off the natural gas or propane in the house.
Many years ago, by chance was having dinner with a guy in the carpet installation business. (We were both sailors and he invited me to dinner)
He told me of one of his experienced installers who missed a pilot light on a heater.
About 30-45 minutes into the job, the fumes ignited sending a ball of flame along the floor.
Good thing the poor bastard died quickly, guess there wasn't much left to scrape up and bury.
If you suspect you are going to be working with adhesives that contain VOC's, make sure there are no open flames in the building.
If you don't give a damn about yourself, so be it, especially if your life insurance is paid up; however, have a little consideration for others who may be in the area. Maybe their insurance isn't paid up.
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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causing
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From your own above words. ===I don't think you will find many instances.=== My god, man, how many would it take, for you? One is too many for me!
I can see nothing will come close to changing your mind.
Good day.
--
Jim in NC



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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I bet more than one person died in their car today. I guess that means you don't drive. It's all a matter of risk. My understanding is that as far as dust goes, no one has documented a dust explosion in a home shop. As for flammable vapors, care would have to be exercised, like in many aspects of woodworking.
todd
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Well, in my case I rarely spread flamable solvents or adhesives around my shop, certainly not in the imediate area of a portable heater! I doubt my forced air furnace that is hanging 8 feet in the air will ignite contact cement on a bench top 8-10 feet away. Your burning contact cement episode sounds more like pure carelessness, but then you blame it on a heater! Again I ask, "How far from your work area was the heater?" Pretty close is my guess! Greg
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I'd not bet on that. The particular episode of contact cement I know about was at least that distance, probably more.

but
was
It is never the fault of the heater. It is ALWAYS the fault of the worker. Does not matter if you call it pure carelessness or just plain stupidity, it has happened. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

And the color of the sky on your planet is?
On this planet it's McDonalds fault for spilled coffee and the growing overweight problem.
I would like to live on your planet but I couldn't blame Beck's for my beer gut.
Here's something not addressed in this thread or I believe properly realized. At least by anyone other than myself (sorry if I missed it).
When things go wrong.
It's one thing to use flammables, what happens when the can falls over? Can't say that's an unforeseen circumstance.
I was working at a propane company. My boss pulls a bobtail into the shop and starts working on the metering system without bleeding off the plumbing. Suddenly there is a huge white cloud making it's way to the standing pilot water heater. And the Heater was a good 10 feet off the ground. The breeze was from the back of the shop and the doors were open, that's the only reason we didn't blow up.
He later said there wasn't suppose to be propane there. "There" housed the mechanism that wasn't working properly. No Kidding. That's Dumb. Stupid was pulling the truck into the shop in the first place.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
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Greg O wrote:

If an example of this is determined to actually have happened, the perpetrator / victem / dumba** could very well be a candidate for a Darwin Award!
Check out http://www.darwinawards.com/ and click on the "A Gasser of a Story" link.
Tim
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On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:27:23 GMT, The Guy

http://www.remtox.co.uk/safetysheets/contactadhesive.htm
"5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Contact Adhesive vapours will form explosive mixtures with air. Being heavier than air, vapours will concentrate and may travel for considerable distances along the ground, down stairways etc. This extends the fire and explosion hazard beyond the immediate vicinity of the workplace. Use sand or earth for containment if there is a danger of spreading or flowing. Not to be used near naked flames, sparks or hot surfaces. Do not smoke. Eliminate all sources of ignition and avoid build up of static electricity by earthing plant etc. Do not pour adhesive from plastic containers. "
http://classaction.findlaw.com/recall/cpsc/files/1977dec/77121.html
"CPSC Bans Extremely Flammable Contact Adhesives WASHINGTON, DC (Dec. 9) -- A serious cause of burn injuries and deaths will be removed soon from the consumer marketplace under a nationwide ban of extremely flammable contact adhesives sold in larger than one-half pint containers. The ban was approved today by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC).
Extremely flammable contact adhesives, popular for their quick-drying properties, have a flashpoint at 20F or below. Because they contain high concentrations of highly flammable solvents which evaporate quickly, the products covered by the ban can ignite explosively or cause flash fires."
From TWA Flight 800 Report
"The senior NTSB scientist at Calverton hangar, Dr. Merritt Birky, chairman of the Flight 800 Fire and Explosion Group, said the "brown to reddish-brown-colored material he sent to NASA for testing was "consistent with a polychloroprene 3M Scotch-Grip 1357 High Performance contact adhesive."
Regards, Tom. Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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Great. I guess we all have to suffer because of other's stupidity.
--
Jim in NC

Wake up idiots! Stop being stoopid!
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Morgans notes:

Yeah, well...it isn't really necessary to buy contact adhesive that has such a volatile solvent base. Titebond Neoprene Plus Contact Adhesive is one example.
Charlie Self "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common." Satchel Paige
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Contact cement has been documented over the years. I did not seen it, but I've seen the results of a flash. -- My sister's house during a kitchen remodel.
Dust is another story. I've never heard of any. You have a whole different scenario of physics taking place. A volatile gas is much different that a solid suspended in air. Particles can actually pass through and burn in a flame and not set off the chain reaction that a gas will. Ed
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Read fire codes. Your insurance may not pay if you have a problem and are not in compliance. http://www.utexas.edu/policies/hoppm/h1024.html
--
Jim in NC



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I'm not sure what this means. The regulations of the University of Texas are not necessarily going to be enforced by my insurance company in CT.
Their regulations make a lot of sense overall, but they do not change the laws of physics. This question comes up frequently here, but no one has ever provided proof of a home shop fire caused by static electricity in a dust collection system or an open flame heater. Ed
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wrote in message

are
are
==================== You think they just invented this stuff? It was what I came across first.
I'm done with this. You all do what you want. I, myself, will do what I can to eliminate risks that are unnecessary.
--
Jim in NC



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