FWW Article: "you can't be serious" abount clamping.

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I just received FWW 194 in the mail. The article "Get Serious About Clamping" attempts to tell us that we are all underclamping our work. While Roman Rabeij chose not to "blind us with the science" he makes the assertion that we really ought to have 1200 lbs/sq inch of clamping force to glue together flatsawn sugar maple. That was not even the optimal number, that's his recommended number. Please please please, just show us the graph with the sweet spot of glue joint failure to clamps required.
My main bench is 3 inches thick and about 6 feet long. Am I going to have to scrap my bench because I did not apply 259,000 lbs of pressure when assembling those laminations? I have a pretty decent clamp collection and I think I could get about 15% of the way there with about every clamp I own (those fancy bessy's are only good for 370 lbs of squish y'know).
*** as an asside, he claims that het gets more clamping pressure (470 lbs.) out of a quick-grip clamp than a parallel jaw (Cabinet Master/Bessy)) clamp. I find that a bit hard to swallow.
My take on the article, on the whole, was that his uncited "science" does not jive with my practical experience. I have never had a glue joint failure that could not be attributed to sloppy joinery :-}. Rabeij's conclusion is akin to saying that we should all drive a $259K Bently because Bently can make a better sedan than Honda.
What say you?
-Steve
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On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 06:43:05 -0400, "C & S"

Sounds like I've been doing it wrong all these years, yet not a single piece has fallen apart do to a bad glue up. I drive a truck--it can haul a lot more wood than a Bently. Find it hard to believe FWW would have such an article.
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Fri, Oct 5, 2007, 11:01am (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@nobody.com (Phisherman) doth sayeth: Sounds like I've been doing it wrong all these years, yet not a single piece has fallen apart do to a bad glue up. <snip>
Had one glue joint fail. With Titebond II that had been below 50 degrees. Nice looking joint, but it popped apart with just a bit of pressure. Called the Titebond people (there IS a 1-800 number on the back of each container, for those of you without a clue), and, if I recall right, this was some years back, warmed it up, added a bit of water, shook the snot out of it. Whatever they told me, it worked, and the rest of the container performed quite satisfactorily. I still use Titebond II, and now make sure it doesn't stay overnight in the shop in the winter.
JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
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On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 06:43:05 -0400, "C & S"

Turn the page. <G>
--------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** ---------------------------------------------
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You bet. That's the reason I subscribe to PC World, not FWW. Their articles are more and more suspect in their quality
OK, that and the fact there aren't any decent men's magazines for guys over 50.... ;^)
Robert
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I'll set you up for that AARP magazine. ;~)
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On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:58:43 -0500, "Leon"

And how does AARP know I'm over 50? Is there any way to tell AARP that I'm really dead?
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they've been sending me solicitations since I was in my mid 30's.....
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Fri, Oct 5, 2007, 9:58am (EDT-1) snipped-for-privacy@swbell.net (Leon) doth claimeth: I'll set you up for that AARP magazine. ;~)
Tried it. Didn't renew. It's for "old" people.
JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
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When I got my complimentary issue I ran out of the house like it was on fire. I couldn't get away fast enough.
Bu the sad truth is that when I go to B&N to peruse the magazines, I do enjoy looking at those tan bodied, long-legged doctor killers on the magazines. 23 years old, legs about he length of my waist size, and you could strike a match on their stomach.
But the magazines I actually pick up have ridiculous crap on them like "cordless drill shootout", and "learning to make perfect dovetails with your screwdrivers" and some such nonesense.
Sigh.
Robert
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wrote:

Aren't air brushes great. ;~)

Yup.
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Fri, Oct 5, 2007, 7:24am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@aol.com <snip> that and the fact there aren't any decent men's magazines for guys over 50.... ;^)
Hah! WoodenBoat, and CarCraft.
JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
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C & S wrote:

A quick look at the FPL handbook( http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch09.pdf ) reveals that the recommended clamping pressure range is 100-247 psi, with further notes that this depends not only on the density of the wood but also on the viscosity of the adhesive and the quality of the surface, and that too thin a glue line is as bad as too thick, with an optimal thickness of .003-.006 inches.
Now it might be that he's bonding with some ancient almost-dried-out Titebond that gives him a good glue line at the pressures that he's using or it might be that he has access to some newer research or it might be that he's full of crap.
Personally though, given the choice between Forest Products Laboratories and the unsupported opinion of some unknown art professor, I'll take FPL.
--
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--John
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Sounds simply stupid. Hard to believe it was in FWW. Maybe he put the decimal in the wrong place.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

The article is pretty lame, I just skimmed it. I agree w/ nailshooter's comment above that FWW articles/editing have slipped drastically recently. They have apparently been unable to replace the first generation writers of the class of Tage Frid, et al. with anybody approach their combination of skill and writing and in large part seem to be reliant on submitted articles from wanna-be-published's for content. They also made conscious editorial change to put in much higher percentage of stuff for newcomers which has probably increased circulation at the cost of lower level of article.
Speaking of lame articles, there was a response to some of the criticism of the bandsaw evaluation article that was also extremely lame (the response as well as the article :) ). A Rikon rep went by and saw the setup after the fact apparently and pointed out they reproduced the rip test w/ drastically faster results.
The rebuttal was that while the FWW article mis-identified the blade used for their tests as a hook-tooth when in fact it was a skip-tooth blade they stood by the relative rankings of their testing with still nary a word to justify the gross discrepancies.
WMH wrote in to affirm the earlier information I found in trying to dig out any possible reasons for the discrepances of there being an alignment problem with the riser kits for the Jet and Powermatic saws which caused the alignment "issues" for which there is tech support to resolve.
Overall, it's getting where except for the eye candy of the user work in Readers' Gallery and an occasional article it's surely losing its value. I've subscribed since about Vol 2, but if it weren't for that longtime inertia doubt would any longer...
--
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"dpb" wrote

I've mentioned before the obvious lameness of some of the "methods of work" and "tips and tricks" in woodworking magazines in general the past few years. Also noteworthy is the general increase in contentiousness of "letter's to the editor's" in these same magazines since the advent of inclusion of "e-mail".
Macrocosm reflecting the microcosm (the general 'dumbing down')? ... probably not too far off the mark.
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.......now WHO is supposed to be the long-hair? *snickers*
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"Robatoy" wrote in message

That's what an education will get you, Bubba ... a snicker? Besides, I hardly have enough to cover my ears.
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Pretty soon I can cover MY ears from the inside out.
*smirk*
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Fri, Oct 5, 2007, 2:43pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@topworks.ca (Robatoy) doth sayeth: Pretty soon I can cover MY ears from the inside out.
Now you know the reason fire was stolen from the Gods.
JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
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