Festool power tools.

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On 2/4/2012 2:44 PM, Stuart wrote:

Far above your original implication that there was nothing in that frequency range ... but your sudden, Google acquired knowledge is misleading you ... what machine, what head format, what tape formulation, what did you bias for?

Irrelevant ... Google can indeed provide you with information and terminology, but, unfortunately, can't provide you with the basic understanding to properly use it.
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Actually, I've been interested and involved in tape recording since my parents bought a recorder back in the early 60's. Obviously that was a low-end domestic machine but I've had a number of others, and built my own, since. My current machine is a Ferrograph logic 7 but unfortunately it now sits largely unused at the far end of the lounge. For a number of reasons I no-longer have anything to record live and my microphones - condensers and ribbons - have all gone up on ebay but I still have my standard calibration tapes and the necessary test equipment to set everything up.
Sure, I used google to check latest stuff such as current microphone technology and specs but I /know/ at lot more than you think.
With microphone response dramatically falling off and machine response also falling off, let alone your ears, it's largely academic as to whether there is anything above 20k of any significance - or even lower frequencies than that - unless you have the ears of a bat.
For all your ravings about psycho-acoustics you clearly have not understood the work that has been done proving that at higher frequencies (in particular) and below certain thresholds you can actually throw information away without it being noticed by the human brain because of msking effects.
We've drifted a long way from Festool so end of this particular discussion.
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On 2/4/2012 5:32 PM, Stuart wrote:

How convenient ... if you will address the specific points I have made, and provide cites for where you take exception ... and not just general terminology slinging like the above (including the introduction of "nautical" terms into a discussion regarding acoustic principles and their application to microphones and human hearing??) ... I will be more than glad to defend those specific points for you.
But somehow I suspect that will not be the case ...
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Yep, ol' Fletch even managed to get his own button on almost every consumer amplifier.
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You knew him when you were designing thankless water heaters, too?
LOL ----------- "Swingman" wrote in message
Yep, ol' Fletch even managed to get his own button on almost every consumer amplifier.
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Or the microphone!
Even Neuman only quote a 20kHz upper limit on their M149 which, at three grand (pounds) is probably the microphone equivalent of Festool.
Saw a chart in a book once which showed the frequency ranges of various instruments, microphones, amplifiers, speakers etc. The limiting factor was the microphone and if the microphone doesn't pick it up you aint gonna hear it unless it's generated elsewhere.

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On 2/3/2012 4:24 PM, Stuart wrote:

Where you err your assunmption in the above is that the spec'ed frequency range of a high quality mic is what is known as it's "flat" frequency response, usually quoted as between two numbers, say 20 Hz to to 20kHz.
... that does not mean that nothing outside that flat frequency response is not picked up, it just means that it will not be picked up at the same level as that sound within the flat response.
The "frequency response" of a mic, and its relative flatness at certain frequencies, is the main characteristic a knowledgeable audio engineer uses to determine mic choice for a particular sound, instrument or vocal.
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A look at the curves shows all.
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On 2/4/2012 1:40 PM, Stuart wrote:

Precisely ... that you were wrong in your assumption.
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Not at all. After a peak at about 10k the response is clearly heading downwards at a rate of notts
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On 2/4/2012 3:01 PM, Stuart wrote:

Which microphone is Google confusing you about?
A "flat" response from 20Hz to 20 kHz is just that "flat" .. double your figure "10k" above.
And "notts" being an audio engineering term from what planet?
You are out of your element and Google will do nothing but confuse you further.
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Nothing to do with google, I'm quoting manufactures figures here.

Go look yourself at the curves for the microphone I mentioned. 4dB down at 20Hz, notionally flat between 5Hz and about 7K, rising to a peak of +4dB at 10k then rapidly falling off from about 13k to be -6dB at 20k. I would estimate without copying and drawing it out on graph paper (yes I have the proper bode plot paper) it's about -30dB at 30kHz. At your fanciful 50kHz it's out of sight.

Ah, of course, I forgot I'm talking to Americans with their poor education.
"Rate of Notts" - standard expression referring to speed in Nautical miles per hour - Notts. Translation for your benefit - the output is falling very rapidly with increasing frequency.

Oh No sunshine, after nearly 40 years as an electronics engineer I know exactly what I'm talking about but perhaps you'd better stick to woodwork.
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On 2/4/2012 5:32 PM, Stuart wrote:

Well, exccccuuusssse me! LOL
Psssst:
Anytime you're ready to compare the number of music recordings you have to your credit as a _recording engineer_, that are being downloaded from iTunes, and being streamed by Spotify and Rhapsody to millions around the world as we speak, among others, let me know. :)
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That would depend entirely on the copyright holders - I'm just the erk doing the recording. Almost all were "private" recordings for clubs/societies etc.
Now they seem to think that something like the Zoom audio recorder is all they need and they do their own.
Sometimes people wanted a recording of their wedding, these days they want a video. Even when vicars prohibit video during the service many churches these days do their own audio. My own church now has a CD recorder as part of the sound system and the person on the sound desk operates it.
CCTV too with large screens and a remotely operated camera, high up, that can see most of the church so people at the back can see easily what's happening at the front.
It's a good job I was doing it as an amateur and not trying to make a living from it otherwise I'd now be another statistic on the register of the unemployed
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"Stuart" wrote in message wrote:

Nothing to do with google, I'm quoting manufactures figures here.

Go look yourself at the curves for the microphone I mentioned. 4dB down at 20Hz, notionally flat between 5Hz and about 7K, rising to a peak of +4dB at 10k then rapidly falling off from about 13k to be -6dB at 20k. I would estimate without copying and drawing it out on graph paper (yes I have the proper bode plot paper) it's about -30dB at 30kHz. At your fanciful 50kHz it's out of sight.

Ah, of course, I forgot I'm talking to Americans with their poor education. ============================================================You forget that we do not speak the same language. It's spelled knot around here.
"Rate of Notts" - standard expression referring to speed in Nautical miles per hour - Notts. Translation for your benefit - the output is falling very rapidly with increasing frequency.

Oh No sunshine, after nearly 40 years as an electronics engineer I know exactly what I'm talking about but perhaps you'd better stick to woodwork.
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Stuart Winsor

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Aye, who was it said said "Two nations separated by a common language"?
Mind you, my spelling isn't always that good anyway, especially when I'm feeling annoyed. It should be "knot" round here too and for that I must eat humble pie.
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On 2/5/2012 9:24 AM, Stuart wrote:
> Ah, of course, I forgot I'm talking to Americans with their > poor education.
> "Rate of Notts" - standard expression referring to speed > in Nautical miles per hour - Notts. Translation for your benefit > the output is falling very rapidly with increasing frequency.

Use it once and it might be a misspelling ... use it three times, as you did, and it is out of the realm of misspelling and indeed into the realm of "poor education".
So much for Americans being the ones "with their poor education".
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Misspell it once, see it quoted back and repeat the same error.
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On 2/5/2012 12:13 PM, Stuart wrote:

BTDT ... two many times. :)
<that's a pun ... just in case)
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Yes I spotted it <g>
Oh, and writing stuff at near midnight after a particularly tiring day doesn't help - if that's an acceptable excuse/reason
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