Festool power tools.

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Hello all,
I was in a tool shop t'other day (Axminster) and noticed a lovely display of Festool tools, so naturally I went over to have a sneaky grope and see what all the fuss is about. They are clearly a cut above the kind of power tool I am used to using (just hobby & DIY) but... the prices! THE PRICES! Why are they so expensive? They are undoubtedly nice units, but they seem to be inordinately expensive - 500 quid for a cordless driver, 120 quid for an LED work lamp, etc etc... The most expensive thing I saw was a router for 700-and- something pounds.
So why are they so costly? And more importantly, are they worth the money?
Thanks in advance,
David.
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On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:46:30 -0800, David Paste wrote:

Do you believe the old saying that the last 15% of the project is 85% of the cost? Or do you prefer the one that says sell the sizzle and not the steak?
Take your pick :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 00:13:48 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

Let us know when you get around to an actual answer, LB.
-- Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself. -- Thomas Jefferson
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On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 15:46:30 -0800 (PST), David Paste

It depends on what you're looking for. When you get into the finer aspects of woodworking, the difference between top notch and a little less so is reasonably fine.
Most every Festool owner (and I am one of them), really likes the dust collection of their tools. This includes their routers and their sanders. The first Festool I ever bought was the Domino, which is a unique tool.
If you feel you need some type of impetus to push you over the edge when it comes to buying, I'd suggest the Domino as a first purchase. And most definitely yes, it is expensive. But then, it stands far above your average doweling jig or biscuit joiner. Most every Festool dealer holds a 'Festool day' once in awhile. You should attend one or find a dealer that does. Until then, you can check out the Festool Owner's Group which is a web site dedicated to everything woodworking as well as other topics. It's for everybody, not just for use by Festool owners.
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On 2/1/2012 6:26 PM, Dave wrote:

Not to mention that with the 30 day money back guarantee you can't be fooled into buying something that does not live up to or beyond your expectations.
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I find it hard to believe that a GBP 500 cordless driver (USD 800) is that much better than a USD 100 (GBP 63) DeWalt 18v.
As for the domino, it may be unique, but again, is it really worth the price?
I guess there is always a market for Rolls Royce, but it is more about showing off than functionality.
scott
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On 2/2/2012 12:00 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

There are some things that you just have to experience to understand. ;~)

Absolutely. I sell a majority of my work. In the last 4 years I have used in excess of 1800 Domino tenons in just the 5mm thick size. That works out to 3600 mortises. In a bed that I built this last summer with under mount drawers I cut 112 precisely placed mortices in the upper sections of the headboards. 56 of those mortices were in the ends of 1.5" wide slats. I did that in less than 1 hour. And no a Plate joiner/biscuit jointer would not have worked. I needed these slats to be stationary during glue up and assembly, I had 28 separate joints, 56 tennons all coming together at one time during glue up. With biscuits I would have had parts falling out. Using a mortiser I suspect that at best that would have been an all day job so that saved me at least $315 of my time. That was 112 mortices and I have cut well in excess of 3600 in the last 4 years. You can do the math here but I am able to turn out higher quality work much more quickly with the Domino.
If you are a hobbyist the savings will be significantly less unless you are short on work shop time and you value your free time.

Well to be fair and comparing apples to apples, the new Rolls is going to cost 10 times more than the average new car.
A new Festool is only about 2.5 times more expensive than the average new brand power tool.
And as I mentioned above you really have to work with the tool to appreciate the difference. When you spend all day week in the shop week after week Festool proves itself time and again.
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On 2/2/2012 12:00 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

perfect analogy. I agree. I don't buy pioneer stereos or monster cables either.
--
Steve Barker
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On 2/2/2012 4:46 PM, Steve Barker wrote:

It is a good analogy but is is not a good comparison.
Monster cables crack me up. I never could understand how people could actually miss the teeney weeney looking uninsulated wire that protruded out of the clear "MAGNIFYING" insulation.
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Monster cables piss me off. They have made the cables very expensive. Other manufacturers realize that Monsters are no different than theirs, but to compete they raise the price to seem like this is not a cheap POC.
So the cost goes up. I have been able to find alternatives but its work.
On 2/2/2012 6:55 PM, Leon wrote:

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On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:00:56 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:

Me I buy lamp cord for speaker wire, cheaper works just as well as speaker wire unless you have some high end audio measuring equipment. Then "the superior qualities" of Monster cable show up, it is not discernable by human hearing range though despite some audiophiles beliefs.
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On 2/2/2012 9:13 PM, Markem wrote:

Buy heavier gauge lamp cord for better equipment. I am not sure Monster cable makes cable as high of gauge as what you can buy in bulk although I have not looked at monster cable fin a very long time.
I could certainly tell the difference between regular speaker wire and 14 gauge lamp cord. IIRC the highs were more crisp.
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I remember a while ago, an article in the magazine "Wireless world" (now Electronics World), in which Douglas Self, a highly regarded amplifier designer, explained why he used "Woolworths Mains cable" for his speaker leads. Tables of measurements were provided to support his view!
As Barry Fox, in a later edition of the same journal said, "There is no doubt that most people who pay hard-earned cash for mumbo-jumbo witchcraft will rather hear the difference than admit they were taken for a ride"
--
Stuart Winsor

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"Markem" wrote in message
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:00:56 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:

Me I buy lamp cord for speaker wire, cheaper works just as well as speaker wire unless you have some high end audio measuring equipment. Then "the superior qualities" of Monster cable show up, it is not discernable by human hearing range though despite some audiophiles beliefs. =========================================================It's not discernable period. Copper is copper.
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On 2/3/2012 2:14 PM, CW wrote:

There must be a category of monster cable previously mentioned by Arthur that most people never see. I don't think that Best Buys sells anything that would require an extremely high quality cable.
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On 2/2/2012 8:00 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

Don't buy cables at all for your speakers, buy 14 gauge copper lamp cord. Basically all cables sold at the typical sound store are an extremely high mark up item. I have a source for cable that needs to have ends on it that makes up cables for about 20% of what you pay at a retail store.

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Actually, there is a measurable sound difference when you use the better cable. But, unless you're a trained sound engineer who hasn't lost any of his hearing, then cable like Monster cable is a waste of money for the rest of us.
After all, we're woodworkers who have been hammering nails all our lives and putting up with the screaming of cheap dust collectors. (until we bought our Festool dust collectors). So, most of us have lost our fine edge of hearing a long time ago.
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On 2/3/2012 7:37 AM, Dave wrote:

I bought new front speakers from an upper end dealer, one that's prices include delivery and installation and wiring. The wiring was Monster Cable. I change locations of the speakers and used 14" gauge lamp cord, actually heavier gauge wire, and noticed an improvement in sound instantly. The powered sub woofer still has the Monster cable.
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Just keep the cross-sectional area up and the resistance down, theat's all there is to it.
--
Stuart Winsor

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On 2/3/2012 7:37 AM, Dave wrote:

I don't know about the sound levels of dust collectors. (if i had a permanent shop, the collector would be outside and noise not an issue). BUT, i can assure you that copper is copper and no amount of money spent on a name brand cable will change the sound coming out of a speaker.
--
Steve Barker
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