Curious about ebay

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on 7/14/2005 11:00 AM Charlie Self said the following:

It's pretty hard for Ebay/PayPal to do much of anything other than warn their users of the fraud. That's why we (who use Ebay and PayPal) constant reminders that they will never contact us asking for information, etc. YOU, the customer, has to initiate the contact.
These scams, otherwise known as "phishing" are getting quite sophisticated in some respects, yet childish, in others. While the graphics and fake websites look like the real deal, the language employed can be pretty funny. If you received one of these this morning, as I did, you know what I'm talking about.
AOL's spam filters, Thunderbird's spam filters, and most others seem to miss this stuff and so I just keep hitting delete after looking to see what these idiots have come up with THIS time<g>
When you take the time to trace these things back to their point of origin, typically it's off-shore in some third world hell hole or the former USSR (same difference, I guess) or they dead-end at some anonymizer, again, off shore.
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Well, let's see... the spams are being sent by people with no connection to eBay, from servers that don't belong to eBay... what on earth do you suppose eBay could be doing to stop it?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

Dunno. There were some reports about follow-ups and prosecutions some time ago, but those petered out. Nothing since and the amount of crap has risen. Seems like ebay has taken on the con status of E. Podunk Third National Bank for a "Your account is going to be closed out if you don't send us all your info immediately" subjects. I'd be curious to know if they've even checked to see if there is anything they can do.
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There are the following issues with regard to _any_ "phishing" scam: 1) identifying the perpetrator(s) 2) figuring out what legal jurisdiction(s) they are in 3) figuring out what, IF ANY, _crime_, the 'misrepresented solicitation' is     in *THAT* jurisdiction. (national? provincial? municipal?) 4) figuring out what language the authorities there speak, to report the      criminal act. 5) figuring out who to file the criminal complaint with. 6) figuring out how to get _them _to_ prosecute.
Similar issues apply with regard to getting the web-site knocked down, when *it* is off-shore. unless eBay is registered to do business in _that_ jurisdiction, they can't even claim trademark protection *there*.
Even in the U.S. I'm not sure what crime it is, **IF ANY**, to trick somebody into revealing 'sensitive' account information. To -use- that information once you have it is definitely a crime -- any of several sorts, depending on the use to which that information was put.
This leaves trademark misrepresentation and/or 'dilution of trademark' as possible avenues.
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snipped-for-privacy@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote in

Isn't unsolicited, commercial spam e-mail considered a crime in some jurisdictions now?

Yeah, but by that time the crooks can be in the clear...leaving only a very blurry, multi-offshore-jurisdiction trail behind.
--

Bill

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for 'unsolicited, commercial spam e-mail',_in_and_of_itself_, the answer is "No". It may be an actionable 'civil tort', however.
Sending email _can_ be a criminal offense, if there are specific characteristics of that message that meet other specifictions in law.

Yuppers. tracing back to the perps _is_ a problem.
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<<Even in the U.S. I'm not sure what crime it is, **IF ANY**, to trick somebody into revealing 'sensitive' account information. To -use- that information once you have it is definitely a crime -- any of several sorts, depending on the use to which that information was put.>>
Sure sounds like fraud to me.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"




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"Fraud", 'bunco', etc. almost invariably require that the victim have had something "taken" from them -- something that they thereby _no_longer_ _have_the_use_of_. "
Information theft -- where material is 'merely' "copied" -- is a "different kettle of fish".
*IF* the information is provided 'voluntarily', it's hard to argue that it was 'stolen'.
"Deception" to cause someone to disclose information, is relatively uncharted waters.
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"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message

Howdy Robert,
What about "theft of services" ... as in unauthorized use of bandwidth and cpu cycles needed to process the spam that are subsequently no longer available to your customers?
Having to increase and pay for additional, and expensive, bandwidth due to the increased volume of spam is most definitely a financial burden for smaller companies and has the same bottom line result as outright theft. DAMHIKT
--
www.e-woodshop.net
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Swingman wrote:

...
Yes, it's real but impossible to prosecute successfully... :(
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Wishful thinking, I'm afraid.
In general, law holds out that if you make a service/facility available to the 'world at large', you have to give 'actual notice' to the specific party that you wish to prohibit from using tat service/facility. "Notice by publication" is _not_ sufficient -- you have to be able to show that they actually *read* that notice, and ignored it.
Similar issue/problem with a civil suit for the common-law tort of 'trespass to chattel' -- which *has* been used successfully against spammers.

Yes, the _effect_ is virtually indistinguishable. Unfortunately the law does not regard the 'cause' as equivalent.
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"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...

_no_longer_
and
party
'trespass
to
Thanks for the reasoned response ... I'll keep that rope handy just in case.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/12/05
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wrote:

They shut down several of these each day.
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Allan Matthews wrote:

...
Confirming data???
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:42:30 -0500, Duane Bozarth

Only what they send me when I forward one of these to them and notice a few hours later that the website the scammer tries to send me to is no longer there. Allan
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Many of those phishing emails look convincingly real. However, one dead giveaway, as you pointed out, is when they threaten to cancel an account you never actually had. To avoid having my real email address read by crawlers and bots and added to a million spammers' lists, I have for years been using the fake e-mail address shown in the header of this message. It was only in the last month or so that I actually created a real account using that address just to see how much unsolicited crap would start coming my way. The day I activated the address I got about a dozen pieces of garbage e-mail, 8 of which were bogus eBay and PayPal notices. A while back I did forward one or two of these phishing emails to snipped-for-privacy@ebay.com or snipped-for-privacy@paypal.com and I started getting deluged with (legitimate) confirmations for each one I sent them. I got 1 or 2 a day for about a week, so I finally stopped forwarding the crap to the spoof police.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"



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I don't spend any time reading spam. But in the little time it takes me to delete the crap, I can often spot grammar errors in just the first sentence or two. English is obviously not their first language.
Isn't there a style or grammar guide for internet crooks?
How is that for an internet service? Editing services for spams, phishes and various sundry con games?
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Actually, many of the grammar/spelling errors are _deliberate_. So that the 'erroneous' construct will not match the patterns used by tools that block traffic based on the 'correct' words/phrases.
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wrote:

While we are on this topic, any recommendations for a spam filter? I have been using spam sleuth up till last week when it mysteriously stopped working. I have been unable to raise any kind of help from the company either.
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I subscribe to spamcop.net for 30 bucks a year, they block 98 or 99% of the crap that would normally get to me. Another approach is to have a whitelist set up - zaep from rhinosoft.com is great, if you have windows and an always-on network connection. Once you (or they) whitelist a sender, their mail comes right through; new ones need to be approved by either you or, if you want, them. Unless your friends turn into spammers, that should block 100% of it.
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