climbing bit


Got the PC 7518 in the PRL and the Twin linear fence going this weekend. I have been making wonderful box joints as I make the drawers for the router table / cabinet
I switched from a two flute stright cutter -- used for the box joints to a 1/4" onsrud (sp?) sprial up cut (down cut since its in the table) and started to mill the groove for the plywood drawer bottoms. Funny thing happened. The bit "climed" -- changed height. Hmmmmm. So I check everything, height of router -- did the lift move ? or was the bit loose -- did the bit move ? Reset everything and started in on a new piece -- bit climbed again. Router lift did not move -- must have been the bit. I checked the bit again, do not know how much tighter I can make the collet --- hmmmmmm
Anybody else have the same experience ? I will try a straight two flut bit next, but thought the onsrud would make a cleaner cut.
Other question: A while back I bought a 3/8" onsrud on a 3/8" shaft (missed the shaft size when I ordered the $40 bit). So now with only 1/4" and 1/2" collets what to do. Well I found a 3/8" collet from PC, invest $12 more to use the $40 bit -- good bargin (vice chucking the $40 bit) Ok so I get the 3/8" collet and the 3/8" onsrud does not fit -- calipered both and they seem to be right --- Thoughts ?
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I had a dovetail bit climb nearly out of the collet when milling some dovetails the other day. it is a 1/4" shanked bit (the only way I could purchase that particular size incra dovetail bit from CMT). After ruining my project boards and scaring me a bit, I found that cleaning off every last trace of oily residue from the bit shank and the collet, followed by tightening the sucker substantially tighter than the first go round, solved the problem. I finished the project with the bit not moving even .001. I used Q-tips to get down in the collet.
BTW, I also have the 7518 and twin linear. Now I'm waiting to receive a straight pair of fences from Woodpecker's. I ordered 2 a couple weeks ago but they arrived dished .047 (concave) in the middle. That's a big discrepancy for something about 4" wide! Along their length they are flat. The problem is they aren't vertically flat. My original fence are PERFECTLY flat across their faces.
dave
SamTheCat wrote:

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Thanks for the info -- now I'll have to measure my fence
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I've had similar problems with Incra extrusions. I think they need to improve their inspection process. I have spent some time in their manufacturing area I can't recall seeing and systematic inspection there.
RB
Bay Area Dave wrote:

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RB wrote:

In most manufacturing plants today, inspection stations are being eliminated. Process control eliminates the need for much of it. Inspectors, being human, miss many defects. (100% inspection catches 80% of the erors) The theory has been proven that if you can control the way things are made you can control the finished product far better.
Don't let the ISO 9000 thing give you the warm and fuzzy feeling either. It does not mean the company makes a good products, it meand the company makes a consistant product and documents it well, even if the standard is to make crap. ISO 9000 assures that the crap you buy today is going to be the same as the crap you bought yesterday and tomorrow.
--
Ed
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wrote:

ISO9000 was never intended to be a "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" for retail customers. Rather, it was designed for the component marketplace.
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Cape Cod Bob wrote:

True, but people often think it gaurantees a quality product. It only means they consistantly give the same product that meets their specification, be them good or bad. You don't see it much (yet) on consumer good, but you do on industrial products. Out hobby often uses goods intended for the industrial/commercial world. More and more I see a little spot on a carton stating "made by an ISO9000 certified company" This is sort of like marketing at a filling station "our gas contains no water" in in our case, "our wood is termite free" with the implication that others may be of lesser quality.
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Ed
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:48:01 -0500, Cape Cod Bob wrote:

It's what led us at an "in search of Six-Sigma" company to note "the process IS the product". For software, the SEI CMM was a much more meaningful path to quality, although very painful productivity wise on the journey to the benefits. Great idea in theory, but our division of the company went under before the payoff - hmmmmmmmm. I think it had to do with management wanting to use these quality initiatives as a marketing tool rather than a means to true improved quality.
--
-Doug


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If the next one I receive is dished, I'm gonna ask for my money back and live with the original one that I cut through with a rail bit. I already offered to forget the order so that they wouldn't waste money sending out another potentially unacceptable part, but they want to try "at least once more". Doubt it will come today as it's a holiday.
dave
RB wrote:

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Ditto ... The only time in years of using a router has a bit ever climbed on me and that was with a 7518 and a 1/4" collet, and recently there have been other reports here of bits climbing in the PC 7518 when using a 1/4" collet. I know how to properly chuck up a router bit, so in my case it was neither technique, nor lack of initial tightening.
I have observed that a 7518 runs hotter than any other modern router I've used. I have noticed this with two other 7518's besides my own, and they run particularly hot when used in a router table for any length of time.
I am surmising that the smaller collet and bit, with less mass and closer to the action, is expanding at a different rate than the threaded arbor and therefore loosening under the heat built up by the 7518 during prolonged use.
With nothing else to go on, and when running a 1/4" collet in the 7518 in a router table, I now let it run for a few minutes until the tool heats up, preferably under a load on some scrap, then re-tighten the collet before setting your depth of cut and fence.
... and, as always, make sure you don't 'bottom' the bit in the collet before tightening.
I can't guarantee this will solve the problem, but it seems to be a prudent step to take as it was not an uncommon one years ago on older tailed tools.
YMMV...
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I know this has been discussed here before several times. Try not setting the shaft all the way into the collett. Make sure the collet area is clean.
--
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Got the PC 7518 in the PRL and the Twin linear fence going this weekend.&nbsp; I have been making wonderful box joints as I make the drawers for the router table / cabinet</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I switched from a two flute stright cutter -- used for the box joints to a 1/4" onsrud (sp?) sprial up cut (down cut since its in the table) and started to mill the groove for the plywood drawer bottoms.&nbsp; Funny thing happened.&nbsp; The bit "climed" -- changed height.&nbsp; Hmmmmm.&nbsp; So I check everything, height of router -- did the lift move ? or was the bit loose -- did the bit move ? Reset everything and started in on a new piece -- bit climbed again.&nbsp; Router lift did not move -- must have been the bit. I checked the bit again, do not know how much tighter I can make the collet --- hmmmmmm</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anybody else have the same experience ?&nbsp; I will try&nbsp;a straight two flut bit next, but thought the onsrud would make a cleaner cut.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Other question: A while back I bought a 3/8" onsrud on a 3/8" shaft (missed the shaft size when I ordered the $40 bit).&nbsp; So now with only 1/4" and 1/2" collets what to do.&nbsp; Well I found a 3/8" collet from PC, invest $12 more to use the $40 bit -- good bargin (vice chucking the $40 bit)&nbsp; Ok so I get the 3/8" collet and the 3/8" onsrud does not fit -- calipered both and they seem to be right --- Thoughts ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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"Some background on your dilemma in the spiral cutter question at the http://www.patwarner.com/faq.html link. *****************************************

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Check the diameter of the shaft on the bit. It could be undersized. I had the problem with a Craftsman router many years ago. I finally gave it back to Sears as a bad design problem becaue it happened with more than one bit. However, nothing has moved since I switched to PC routers. My 7518 is in a table an works great.
Len ------------
Routerman P. Warner wrote:

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I had a similar problem with a 1/4" bit in my older PC router (6902). A close examination showed that the collett was cut thru only in 1 place - so it was pretty stiff in resistence of being compressed in diameter.
I went to the local tool shop and asked to see a replacement PC 1/4" collett - it had been re-designed and was cut thru in several more places and was much less stiff and resistant to being compressed in diameter.
I bought the re-designed collett, and the problem was solved.
Your mileage may vary!
sopher
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:31:46 -0500, "SamTheCat"

onsrud (sp?) sprial up cut (down cut since its in the table) and started to mill the groove for the plywood drawer bottoms. Funny thing happened. The bit "climed" -- changed height. Hmmmmm. So I check everything, height of router -- did the lift move ? or was the bit loose -- did the bit move ? Reset everything and started in on a new piece -- bit climbed again. Router lift did not move -- must have been the bit. I checked the bit again, do not know how much tighter I can make the collet --- hmmmmmm

shaft size when I ordered the $40 bit). So now with only 1/4" and 1/2" collets what to do. Well I found a 3/8" collet from PC, invest $12 more to use the $40 bit -- good bargin (vice chucking the $40 bit) Ok so I get the 3/8" collet and the 3/8" onsrud does not fit -- calipered both and they seem to be right --- Thoughts ?
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