blade guard use on tablesaw

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Ramsey wrote:

Nah, I practically never ride anymore. That's the other way to solve the problem. :)
While I *could* have a nasty one and kill myself in the empty parking lot across the street, it's rather less dangerous than riding in the real world. If I ever go riding anywhere in the real world again, I'll buy some elbow/knee pads, and don my helmet if that will make you happy. :)

You do have excellent survivability in a truck.

I doubt Capt. Hull had a bicycle helmet on board. More than likely, his gunners didn't wear hearing protection either. In fact, I'll bet his sailors used to climb the ratlines without clip-on safety ropes too.
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Simply amazing!! How did they ever survive?? And no steel-toed shoes or helmets?? No, no way. You gotta be kidding. I won't fall for that! I guess next you 'll tell me that the signs on the stairs and the rope ladders up didn't have braille on them. Come on Michael, we know you kidding!
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Ramsey wrote:

I haven't actually seen the ship (I'd like to some day) but I wouldn't be surprised if any signs it has have been put there in modern times.
I figure back then everybody knew their job, and didn't need labels on stuff. There's probably some basis for that impression, given the steam locomotive cabs I've been inside. 50,000 mysterious gizmos, with nothing to offer a clue what any of it is for, except maybe the boiler pressure gauge.
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"RM MS" wrote

This is rec.woodworking. Most readers are hobbists, not pros. You are advising amateurs as well as pros to run without a blade guard, if I understand you correctly.
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DFTT
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I have not heard anyone advise that . I have heard almost everyone state they THEY are not running one. BIG difference.
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:01:48 -0400, "Joe28"

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Actually you hane me confused with someone else. I have bragging for months on my Bies spreader/spiltter. Check your messages to see who you need to address that too.

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Someone has said that I said "Trust me, do not use the guard" on a tablesaw. If I said that and I find it hard to believe that I did, I must have been thinking of something else and my fingers couldn;t keep up with my mind (not hard tro do). They beat nothing but there are much better alternatives available. Please do use a guard or look at the upgrades that are much better. I will say that the Bies is ALWAYS on my saw unless I absolutley have to take it off. I have seen and been bit by a kickback and it definitely scares me. A 3hp Unisaw can do some serious damage. So, use what you have BUT there are better altenantives out there.
wrote:

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I run a 14" Oliver 400V triple phase on a daily basis. Our shop has guards just to satisfy OSHA or whatever body of nitpickers you have, but all the guards are easily removable and are ALWAYS in that position. The way we got around it is by dedicating a couple of second-rate saws to permanent-guarded status, called them "Roughing Saws" in front of the Feds, and the other unguarded (and preferred) saws we call "Detail Saws" in front of the kids.
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I run a 14" Oliver 400V triple phase on a daily basis. Our shop has guards just to satisfy OSHA or whatever body of nitpickers you have, but all the guards are easily removable and are ALWAYS in that position. The way we got around it is by dedicating a couple of second-rate saws to permanent-guarded status, called them "Roughing Saws" in front of the Feds, and the other unguarded (and preferred) saws we call "Detail Saws" in front of the kids. They seemed OK with it.
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No, it wasn't you.

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internet.com says...

...
According to my newsreader you said:
"I have not heard anyone advise that . I have heard almost everyone state they THEY are not running one. BIG difference."
That's what I was responding to; just pointing out that a previous poster, "RM MS", had given exactly the advice 'don't use a guard'.
N.b. I've also got the "good" Bies splitter and it really does work well.
If
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Quote from RM MS: " I have worked in professional industrial wood shops since 1980. Trust me, DON'T USE THE GUARD".
wrote:

the
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Hell, I'm as amateur a WW as they come, and I don't use my blade guard. I DO use the splitter though. I see nothing wrong with the practice [of NOT using a blade guard] from my standpoint; I maintain that the factory Delta guard is one of those true PITA's. Like most factory guards.
dave
Joe28 wrote:

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The discussion of use/non-use of blade guards has been repeated many times on this group. One comment that is always made is that factory guards are worthless but usually with no further explanation. Would someone like to say why they feel the factory guard is so bad.
For what its worth, I do use the guard on my saw for all cuts where it is possible. And I can take it off or put it on in just seconds. And it is a factory guard. John
Bay Area Dave wrote:

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Probably the single worst attribute of the factory guard is "inconvenience".
Most are difficult and/or time consuming to remove and replace ... thus their use is discouraged by the inconvenience of doing so. And once off, the tendency it to leave them off.
Also, in many cases, factory guards are an integral part of the splitter, so if you remove one, you remove both.
The splitter (or riving knife, as it is known in some countries) is reckoned to be the single best defense against kickback, an occurrence which probably leads to more table saw injuries than any other, particularly for those not used to using a table saw on a regular basis.
Some folks blame the factory guards for accidents and say they can't see the blade with one mounted. I've never seen any first hand evidence of that myself, and have yet to see a blade guard I couldn't see the blade through ... but there is a first time for everything.
That said, their use should be voluntary in a home shop and certainly left up to the individual.
IMO, nonuse in a commercial shop is nothing more than lawyer bait.
I personally use an aftermarket, overhead type blade guard that is easily swung up out of the way and does not have the splitter attached to it. IOW, it is "convenient" to use, and takes seconds to remove and replace.
_I_ use it because I still make a good part of my income playing music professionally and the integrity of my fingers are too important to my family for me to not take all reasonable precautions.
I use a standalone, easily removable splitter for the same reasons.
The use, or nonuse, of safety equipment should be a voluntary, personal decision in a one man shop ... there is not much more that can be said about the issue.
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For non-through cuts, you are correct, both need to be removed. As far as the type of cuts where one would be used without the other, I often swing my guard up when cutting narrow strips so that I can get the push stick between the fence and the blade without the guard getting in the way, but I leave the splitter in place.
The point I was trying to make is that the splitter will probably save your butt more often than the guard will, so if you're into using safety devices, but don't like using a blade guard, it is a good idea to have the two separate so you can use at least the one device that is statistically more likely to do you the most good with regard to operating safely.
This is just my take on the issue ... it works for me, but maybe not for everyone.
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Swingman wrote:

Lemme guess, with a name like Swingman, you must play either country or hiphop, right? :)
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Close, on both counts: www.wildriverband.com
... and I just engineered/mixed a hip hop album in the studio last week, and did the same for the first regional hip hop band in this area 20 years ago ... even an old man's gotta stay up with the times.. ;>)
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"You are advising amateurs as well as pros to run without a blade guard, if I understand you correctly."
Yes, I certainly am doing just that. I will backpedal a bit on my blade guard challenge just to sat that MAYBE, just MAYBE, the guard could prevent a kickback if it had teeth at the bottom, but I wouldn't count on it. It is still a legislated piece of crap designed not to protect YOU, the user, but to CYthe A's of the manufacturers. Believe me, if they were so effective, they'd be as strictly enforced in shops as are safety glasses requirements, which, by the way, I wholeheartedly believe in, both because of common sense and a few close calls over the years. But I will not put blanket endorsement for any fool thing that comes along, that's just stupid. Use your own sense of discernment for individual circumstances. I am just saying that after thousands of hours on saws of all types and sizes, the table saw is safer and more efficient without the encumbrance of a "blade guard". If somehow it makes you feel better to work with that thing in the way all the time, then just be sure to count 'em before and after. Good Luck.
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