Are stainless steel screws worth it in this case?

[PSobon]

Hey all, I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.

[Greg]

If you are going to leave this out in the rain, go with the stainless.

[Roy Smith]

imaginable kind of screw, with good prices and good service.

[Rick Chamberlain]

Use the stainless. Well worth it. Try McFeelys for them:

[Lew Hodgett]

304 S/S is OK, 316L would be much better; however, my choice would be silicon bronze.

All are available from Jamestown Distributors.

BTW, resorcinol glue and white oak were made for each other. Would be far superior to poly glue.

HTH

[George]

Dissent, and purely speculation, but with the corrosive power of the tannins, zinc might be better in the end. Not as if you'll see'em after all.

[xrongor]

if im reading you right, it doesnt much matter what kind of screw you use. its going to be encapsulated in wood and glue. if water gets in there you got worse problems than the screws.

randy

[Bob Schmall]

Any of the suggestions offered on this thread would work, but I'd like to address something else: For your sake usse marine varnish if the chair will be exposed. Use at least

6 coats (seriously). Although marine varnish is the recommended article because unlike standard finishes it flexes with temperature changes, even it will allow moisture to penetrate. I gave my Adirondacks three coats and it wasn't enough-- the nice finish went TU in about 2 years when fungus showed up. We finally painted the things. And the glider needs a complete refinish, so it stays indoors.

Bob Schmall

[Norm Dresner]

Going into volume production, I'd seriously consider Zinc to reduce cost (and pass any corrosion problems on to the consumer ;->) but for just a few for my own use I'd definitely want to prevent any problems later in life. Go SS

Norm

[Charlie Self]

Paul Sobon asks:

McFeely's.

You need either brass or stainless and stainless is a lot stronger. It is not rust you have to worry about with oak, but the reaction between the steel and tannin. That creates a really ugly black stain. Stainless steel prevents that, as do brass and bronze screws.

Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Charlie Self]

xrongor responds:

There is always some water in wood. He needs a screw that is made of a material that doesn't react with tannins.

Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Big River]

Why not skip the metal screws and just use dowels? Glue them. Might as well use the same wood for dowels as the rest of the project. That way all parts are of homogenous wood. Using a rigid metal fastener in an outdoor wood project joint is nearly always the place where, over time, flex occurs. When you have a rigid material like metal and a giving material like wood , over time that is where the joint almost always fails. As mentioned dissimiliar materials like wood and metal interact on a chemical level with both suffering degradation weakening the joint.

more > Hey all,

[Charlie Self]

What? Let's talk about expansion and contraction in a different grain direction with dowels. ANd it is not dissimilar materials reacting, as most woods won't react too badly with steel screws (though they will eventually rust), but oaks react horribly, turning black (which doesn't seem to harm holding power all that much: I had to discard a 20+ year old white oak picnic table a few years ago, but mostly because I was sick of lifting it to cut grass. It had galvanized nails holding it together and was still structurally fine).

Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Lew Hodgett]

SFWIW, IMHO, brass fasteners are about as useless as breasts on a boar hog compared to bronze.

This is particularity true of marine applications where salt water leaches out the zinc in brass creating a worthless device.

Both are similar in price.

[Charlie Self]

I've used brass screws in such chairs before, and had no problems. Probably the quality of the screw matters a good bit, as brass is a soft metal that is fairly weak. I've worked very little with bronze--I think the screw in my left knee is some kind of a bronze alloy, but I'm not sure--but have heard nothing but good things about them. The basic point, though, is that ferrous metal fasteners that don't have nickel added aren't worth using with oak. But we were talking of lawn furniture: If that gets enough salt water to leach the zinc from brass, I dunno want to sit in that spot anyway.

Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Edwin Pawlowski]

So, if yo are going to make a lot of something, you should use second rate materials? Do you happen to be a buyer for WalMart?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Spend the few extra pennies and get the SS. You can get them from McFeelys or Lee Valley. I like them so much I use them even where SS it not a requirement.

[Norm Dresner]

Nah, just a cynical consumer.

[Lew Hodgett]

Be surprised how often you will find that type of chair near the beach.

The hardware store closest to my boat building project stocks bronze fasteners and sells them by the piece, but then again I'm in a boat building area.

Both McFeely & Jamestown sell bronze fasteners.

My guess is that Jamestown as a larger selection.

HTH.

[Dragon Breath]